O’Brien Elite Review - first draft

[Horton]

This is my first draft review of the O’Brien Elite. I expect to return to this ski later this summer for additional scrutiny. This review reflects my experience only and is not associated with a Water Ski Magazine equipment review.

From my first ride on the Elite, I was impressed with a number of it’s attributes but struggled to get to my normal ball count. The ski turned and tracked fantastically but I found myself down course and narrow all the time. The issue was a combination of my skiing faults and the fin setting.  With a .010” forward adjustment in DFT, the personality of the ski totally changed for the better. Width is no longer an issue.

I think a more technical skier than I might benefit from the stock settings and may get more out of the ski than I am getting at the moment. My conclusion is that the Elite is very sensitive to DFT adjustments.

If you have been reading my reviews for a while you know that I do not like the term “Speed” because I think it can be deceptive.  What I can tell you about the Elite is that it achieves and maintains a lot of angle without wearing out the skier. To me a “fast ski” is one that not only gets wide but does so with less rope tension. I judge this based on the amount of effort it takes me to run five or six 35 off passes. Judged this way the Elite is very fast. If we had a good way to measure water speed I suspect that the Elite maintains a more constant water speed then most.  

Many of the top skis today have different personalities on each side. Some skis require more or less front foot pressure for On Side or Off Side. Some skis seem to draw a different radius in each side. The Elite is remarkably balanced in this regard.

Turns on both sides are crisp and fast. Not radical neck breaking nor long carving but fast and smooth. Angle off the ball is as aggressive as any ski I have ever ridden.  The Elite requires at least medium front foot pressure for 35 off and beyond. I loaned the Elite to a friend of mine who runs 28 off with more determination than technique. I was impressed to see that the ski turned well for him even though he is not as centered. 

Tip attitude is something better watched from the boat then felt by the skier. The one comment that I have heard continually since I have been on the Elite is that the ride attitude of the ski is remarkably flat (tip down). My regular ski partners all agree that the water breaks further forward on the Elite then on any other ski that they can recall. This is true at all times in the course; pre-turn, off the ball, and though the wakes. I believe that the fact that so much of the rail is in the water is why this ski is physically easy to ride.

The Elite is relatively free in terms of roll stability. This means that I have to be careful to not “fall into the boat” on heel side turns. I believe that the roll stability of this ski is why I needed to move the fin forward. With a little upper body discipline at the ball line this means that the ski will carry out and carve back better. For a skier who tends to lean in with their shoulders at the ball I suspect that the Elite could be challenging.

Once I moved the fin forward I found that width was not an issue and is easy to achieve. The Elite does not require a lot of handle control to achieve width.  As with all skis it will work better with a tight line all the way to the ball. Skiers who struggle with this skill will surely enjoy forgiveness in this regard.

As a rule I do not “Endorse” any ski. If you asked if I am enthusiastic about the performance of the Elite, the answer is “Hell Yea!”. I think it will work for a wide range of skiers and I think the pro & big dawg level skiers will be insane for it.

Back on the ski as of 8/1 and looking for many balls

[FA]

What numbers are you running on the Elite?

 

[MattP]

only if the price tag was a little lower i would be all over it. I am looking for a new ski and i have always skied well on Andy's ski designs and this new one sounds like the ticket

but one only needs $$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Horton]

Matt,

This may be your lucky day. I have a few blems I can let go for a good price. They are not exactly cheap but better then 2K.

Horton

 

FA

I am not at home  -  with my numbers book. I will look and post later.

Horton

[Horton]

FA

Adam at the factory had me start at

 6.840 Tips

.780 Head (Dial Slot is the only way to go)

2.515

Turns here were unreal but I has issues with outboud direction off second wake. From Ball to Second wake is SICK! 

__________________________________________________________________________

Last I skied on it I was at

6.855 Tips

.799 Dial Slot /Head

2.510

Turns not as auto but outbound is was better

_________________________________________________________________________

I will order another one in a week or two and give it a go again.

 

[Stevie Boy]

Product Test Update:

67" Elite Stock Settings:

Boots:            29 1/4 - 1/2" From Tail

Fin Settings:   

Length:   6.850" (Tips)

DFT:      .785 "

Depth:   2.490 - 2.50"

 

Andy Mapple's Personal Settings (Rear Toe)

Boots:     29.5"

Length:   6.837" (Tips)

DFT:       0.785 "

Depth:    2.510"

 

Chet Raley's Settings (Double Boot)

Boots:     29.25"

Length:   6.840" (Tips)

DFT:       0.785 "

Depth:    2.490"

[skidawg]

 

First - fin set up is critical.  Too much length will cause the ski to

prematurely turn back into the buoy - as will too little depth.  With a

length of (6.838) the ski transitions well off the 2nd wake.  Width is no problem

The depth of 2.512 works well in conjunction w/ the length.  DFT of (.784) is critical as well.  Jones talked to cp this wknd and said a bit shallower and shorter for 34 (which is where I ended up by accident)

 

 The ski is fast (fastest I have ever been on)- that's been said about a lot of skis - but this ski is fast in the sense that it is fast behind the boat (scary fast)- fast off the second wake in transition- and super fast thru the finish of the turn. It is one of the few skis that I don't feel like i sink at 34 mph in the turns.   Other

skis are quick out of the buoy but this ski gets it's quickness from its

maintenance of speed created off the 2nd wake - you don't have to bleed

speed to get the ski to turn.   Unlike some skis I have ridden this year the elite is money when you are on, but it also is very forgiving if you make a mistake. It has a wonderful emergency mode.   The

turns are symmetrical on both sides - ski does not have an offside -

doesn't take a lot of effort to ski.  Like most of Andy's skis, you can move

around a bit with no negative reactions.  

 

 The ski gets better as the line shortens - the "space" generated at 39 Is ridiculous.  Is it possible to be to wide and early?

 

 Very good finish quality.  The packaging is great.  It has a clean and sexy look. No fancy graphics to cover up some deficiency in the layup.  O'Brien obviously is confident in the RMT process - they give the ski a two year warranty.  In today's high-end ski market, that stands out from the crowd.  I feel this ski is much more durable than what's offered from others.   The ski is light but not from a lack of internal components but rather a  new manufacturing process that allows for reduction in weight without

sacrificing durability.  Overall my impression is a jaw dropping  WOW.  I am skiing better than I have in two years with less effort.  Andy, adam and Obrien have done a fantastic job, everyone should own an elite.  It is by far the best ski I have ever been on.  Skiing is now fun again.  I can't wait till my next tournament-I smell a PB.

[MrJones]

I was fortunate enough to watch CP run 41 two of three rounds today at an R tournament. A slight crush from 2 to 3 the first time, then clean. The last round 41 was absolutely sick. I have seen some good skiing over the years, but I have never seen anything like that. I don't know if it is possible to be early at 41, but that is how I would have to describe it.

 He has a ski he is confident on again. His best score was 1@43 today, but I believe 2 will be going down soon. 

sj

[lkb]

Skidawg, have you ever skied a Warp? If so, how does it compare with the elite?

[skidawg]

seen it from the boat, didn't ride it (wasn't set up for velcro).  The warp looks good, just hard for me to take a chance on a ski that one handle ding and you are down for a while waiting on repair. 

[lkb]

I have skied about 150 sets on my Warp with no problems at all but I have seen one that got popped by a handle...the guy put some tape on it and kept on skiing.

[Horton]

I saw a guy a touney a few weeks ago with Marine-Tex all over the tip of his Warp.

[MattP]

I think i heard some where that Warp was going out of business.

[thager]

I rode the Elite in February at Drews. Have to agree on Skidawgs comments above. It is the fastest ski I have ever been on period and turns were symetrical and effortless. Coming off a Sixam it was an instant and effortless transition.  I am not a rough water skier but I ran 28 off in 9 inch chop without a lot of effort. I told Drew that it felt like a Sixam with afterburner. If I had a spare 2K I would definately be on one!!!!!

[Horton]

Matt,

Heard that too but does not mean it is true

[ForrestGump]

Mine just arrived. Thank, JTH! You must be the # 1 in Elite sales by now! lol Even the box is awesome. That alone impressed me. Can't wait to try it out!

[skidawg]

Start w/ 29.5 bindings, 6.837, 2.511 or 12, .785 -.782  (dft mucho importanto)

[ForrestGump]

That's pretty close to where I set mine up, within .001. I'm not sure I'm digging the new fin clamp. I gotta try a few fin adjustments. Just not used to not having set screws. Although even with the 3 screws full loose, there seems to be enough drag inside the slot to keep the fin from moving all over. We'll see. 

[MrJones]

One thing that seems nice about the Elite is that all the numbers I am hearing from people are pretty consistant. That goes for the 67" and the 65.5".

The factory recommended binding location seems to be pretty well on the money.

 Depth seems universally around 2.510-2.515

Length is typically 6.840-.845

DFT is the variable with the 67" being about 0.780 and the 65.5" feeling better to me at 0.765.

Of course if you are a little big or a little small for the size ski you might need to adjust. That might be why the smaller ski felt better to me farther back. Still, these are all very close which gives you some confidence that you are not just wandering in the wilderness with your caliper in hand.

sj

ps. Maybe we should move this to the Elite thread?

[Old MS Accout]

First rides on the elite last night were OK.

I was at 29.25 with my front boot and will go to 29.5 tonight.

6.840

2.512

.785

I will post the review after I tinker for a few days.

The one thing I can comment on is the fin box. I dont like it.

[ForrestGump]

Yeah, I'm not sure on the fin box either.

[MrJones]

If you are coming from using set screws anything without them will seem like a pain. My Prophecy did not have set screws either and I can say for sure that the Obrien is much less difficult to deal with than the Connelly was.

 The Obrien clamps look cool, but I would opt for the screws over cool...

sj

[skibug]

All that $$$ for a ski, all that engineering, I can't beleive that the fin box is such a pain.  My buddy has an elite and adjusting it just right can be a little tough.

[Chef23]

My guess is the Elite fin box is about keeping it light vs ease of adjustment.  The fin box is still probably the heaviest thing on the ski and it looks lighter than most fin boxes.

[ForrestGump]

I didn't have too much of a problem getting it adjusted. It's just different when you're used to set screws. There's enough drag on the fin inside the slot even with the screws full loose that mine doesn't move around without being tapped on.

[Horton]

You guys should know that the designer of that fin box reads BallOfSpray and is crying in his beer as he reads this.

[AdamCord]

Haha no trust me I don't take offense to the fin box comments. The truth is that I would love to do set screws but legally I can't because of this patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=ygglAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4

 

I figured as long as I can't use set screws I might as well at least make it as light as possible, which I think we did a pretty good job of!

[skibug]

Adam,

Maybe O'Brien should use some type of cam screws instead of set screws.  That way you differentiate the design.  Just a thought from one engineer to another.

[ForrestGump]

I just changed my fin settings. The fin box isn't as bad as I first thought. Just different.

First set tonight. I'm quite impressed. It's easily the smoothest, softest feeling ski I've been on. Gonna need some sets to figure out where to ride it, but it's got promise.

[D Wolters]

Adam,

I've thought of that very thing for several years. Not only could you push the fin to a desired setting you could pull it back if overshot.

Also would allow for easier lenght and depth setup.

 

[FA]

THE FIN BOX IS WORLDS ABOVE THE OLD LINE LOCK, LIGHT AND ADJUSTABLE. 

NATE SMITH ((M1) 39.5OFF SKIER FROM INDIANA) WAS UP AT OUR LAKE TWO WEEKS AGO. BOTH OF US ON THE ELITE. BOTH HIM AND I ARE RUNNING 11 DEGREES ON OUR WING. I AM ON A 68.5" HE IS ON A 67". I RAN THE STOCK NUMBERS GIVEN (68"):  BOOT: 30 1/8"   LENGTH  6.870 (tips)   DEPTH  2.515   TAIL     .820                AND COULD NOT MAKE THE SKI TURN AT ALL. GOT HIS NUMBERS (67") AND MOVED THE BOOTS TO  29 3/4     AND FIN TO:         TAIL .781     DEPTH 2.52     LENGTH 6.833 AND THE SKI HAS COME ALIVE. IT IS AMAZING. I AM JUST WAITING FOR THE BUOYS AT 22 AND 28   36MPH. I JUST SIT BACK AND LETTHE SKI CREATE ITS ANGLE AND IT IS AMAZING. THE FACT THAT ALL THE NUMBERS ARE SUPER CONSISTANT IS AMAZING AS WELL.

 

 

[Old MS Accout]

I think that when the fin is set and you are happy with it, the box is rock solid. I am just used to the HO and Radar box.

I moved my bindings to 29.5 (67) and Thager got Drew Ross numbers that are longer and shallower then where I was at. 2.502. 6.850 tips. and .775.

Ski came alive and the tip stayed down all the time. I had no issues turning the ski and keeping it moving out of the ball. It feels a bit slow and I may move the wing to 8 from 9. I noticed that the screws on the wing stick way out of the unit and I am going to make them flush tonight. From what everyone is telling me, it is a fast ski and easy to get speed with.  

The ski is rock solid all the time. It stays on track very well and never wants to hunt for an edge. Both toe and heel side turns are the same. If you stay centered on this ski, it treats you very well. If you get off balance, this ski is very easy to put right back on the track. After a load of 32 offs, by my 3rd set I ran it to a few mid 38s but I need to work on the speed issue and that will help get out the end.   

I put a bunch of sets on it tonight.        

[ForrestGump]

With the numbers that our Galactic Leader posted it felt too aggressive on my on side and not aggressive enough on my offside. One thing I noticed is it will hold any angle it sets at all the way to the centerline, even if you overturn it 90 degrees to the course. There is no way I couldve done that on the Senate C, as I would have gotten pulled up. I felt as if I wanted more engagement of the tip, so I'm going to try Drew's numbers today. I was surprised at how stable it was on my first pass when I was riding flat before the pull out. Like MS said, absolutely no hunting. That in itself is going to make my 1 balls more consistent as I've always felt that I was moving my body too much to keep the ski under me as I came up to the 55s to pull out.

[AdamCord]

The problem with the fin patent is that it's very well written and very vague. It basically states that any kind of "memory" in the fin block or any other system that gives the fin settings "memory" is covered under the patent. So that means that any cams, set screws, sliders, etc. are all covered. D3 and others violate the patent but don't seem to care, while O'Brien being one of the bigger companies can't get away with that sort of thing.

 

Also just so everyone knows I've put the updated "recommended" fin settings on the Elite site this week. These seem to be a very good starting point for most people : http://www.obrieneliteblog.com/ski/display.php

[jwr]

My biggest question is I'm currently on the SS and love it, I'm on the verge of running 38 consistantly (I finally got 1 ball straightened out), how do I explain the $2k to my wife?  Will it be worth the weeks of mad looks and no sex?  I really want an Elite, but considering the pain I have to go through, I would really have to pick up another pass.  Somebody please lie to me and say and extra pass is garaunteed.

[Old MS Accout]

Adam,

fin box aside, I think the build quality of the Elite is unmatched. It looks like the ski could take some abuse and not wear out. You guys did your homework.

JWR,

No ski will will get you 6 buoys, but my first reaction would be that this one will consistantly get you to your PB point and help your progress.        

[skidawg]

First, email horton-he may have a few blems (that will save you a 4 or 5 hundred and get u back in the sack a half week sooner.  Sell your ss and off set the cost, spend that money on your wife-she will be smiling and you will be back in the sack a bit sooner.  situation solved,   you will pick up extra bouys no doubt, you will also use less effort running the same passes.  Win win situation for all.

[MrJones]

Reading over the last posts I noticed a couple of things that I have felt. The elite has the most balance toe/heel side turns I have seen. It will hold whatever angle you get all the way through the wakes. That is actually the reason I swapped for a 67". I got so much tip in the water on toe side with the 65.5" that I either popped the fin or went on a rocket ride (out of control) across the wakes. I only have a few sets on the 67", but so far it seems that turning the bigger ski won't be an issue.

MS is correct. No ski will magically get you six buoys. However, a ski can give you more confidence and therefore allow you to focus on technique, etc with more ease. In my case a ski can be physically easier on the body allowing more time on the water. Lastly, a ski can be durable and not break down over a period of months leaving you wondering why you aren't skiing as well and questioning yourself as to what is going on. I am looking for all of these things. If RTM is for real and I can ride the same ski for a couple of seasons and then re-sell it (like I did for years with the older Goodes) I will be an Obrien man for awhile.

sj

ps.

JWR Have you been married long? Weeks with no sex and mad looks? You mean that's not... nevermind.

Buy the ski!

[Horton]

So what do I have to buy to get my wife to let me sleep? 

http://www.bundy-quiz.com/images/al-bundy.jpg

[roberto]

JWR

 

Nothing in life is gauranteed. Except mad looks and no sex!

 

A man is not complete till he is married, then he is finished.

 

Buy the ski, be dammed, we are all behind you!

 

(Hiding in my case as I have the same issue, tell me how you get on)

[thager]

Hey!! Who said you could use my picture???

[jwr]

I know no ski will get me 6 extra bouys, but she doesn't.  I just wanted someone to lie to me, so I could tell her it would with a straight face that it would.  Also it would give me some one to blame it on.  

I've been married for 14 years, but this is the first year that we have been married that I have skied tournaments.  I skied on a 65" Stilleto for the first 13 years.  She isn't used to how much this sport costs.  Looks like I'm saving up to buy one after nationals.  I hope John has some demo's left by then.  Damn Dave Ramsey!  

[MrJones]

"the status symbol of choice is the payed off elite, not the BMW"

At least I think I heard that on the show.

sj

[jwr]

Thanks Scot, now that she may go for.  I'm not going to tell her how much it costs, just that I'm starting saving for it today. 

I'll take it out of her new car fund.  She'll never know what hit her/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif.

[disland]

Fin Box patent. OK I get it But.

They should offer the ski for sale without the fin box at a lwoer price and match the hole pattern so you can put whatever fin box you want on there.

[Horton]

Dave,

This is as dumb an idea as one binding hole pattern for all skis . . .  what are you thinking?

[Steven]

What about having your local machine shop build you a custom fin box?! You're already deep into it, what's another couple hundred. (if that much)

[Roger]

Aren't patents only good for 7 years or something like that? I know the camshaft was originally patented, but is now used in nearly all piston engines without royalties...

 

Edit: looked it up, 20 years so Adam will have to wait another 5 years. Pretty sure I had a fin block with adjuster screws before 94 though...

Patent Law

[Steven]

In conjunction with the custom fin box theory, I would be willing to take on the R&D stages of this project. Of course, I would need a 68.75" Elite to verify fit and function.... Horton?????   TEE HEE   /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-sealed.gif

[Thomas Wayne]

The owner of the "adjustable" fin block patent sued HO Sports in 2006 for patent infringement.  It's my understanding that HO thought they could out-money and/or outlast the inventor.  They were wrong.  On the very eve of trial, facing the realistic likelihood of paying TRIPLE damages, HO settled for an undisclosed amount that more than satisfied the inventor.  Other companies who infringe on that patent may be facing a similar fate in the near future.

Clearly O'Brien has opted to avoid such legal issues, but is also [presumably] unwilling to pay a royalty to the rightful owners of the invention.

TW