And when is time for divorce?

[tsixam]

If you ski about 100 sets a year in the 35-38 off range, how many years will a high quality ski last before it is time for divorce?

Tsixam

[Horton]

My guess us most skis are worth 1 1/2 (+ -) seasons. Some skis will last longer and some less. I think old Goodes a good example to this. There are some 9100s that are good as new and there are plenty of broken and or broken down Goodes out there. I got a season and 1/2 from my first gen Sixam  - when she went south I know something was wrong. She just lost her spunk.

RTM skis like a Fisher or Elite should last a LOT longer but that is yet to be seen.

Generally every 3-4 years ALL the new skis are better so . . .

[tsixam]

I can see that this relationship is going downhill. What are the first signs when a ski is getting old?

 It feels like I am turning to hard, too much roll on the ski, no matter what I do and it does not finish the turns as nice as it used to do. I think I am a better skier and I have about the same ball count as last year but I have to work so much harder.

 

 

Tsixam

[MAD11]

My latest theory is dating for a month is far too long. Just recently developed that one.

[MrJones]

I think 2 years max. (180# and 28-39)I used to get a new Goode every 2 years. 9100, 9300, couple of 9500's, 9700. I actually rode 9100's for about 5 years. I still have the last one. I bought it used with about 40 holes in it for $100. I used it for 3 seasons and I swear if I pulled it out today it would still have plenty of zip. (I still have it)

sj

[Marco]

I'm on year 3 with the yellow Fish, and as far as I can tell, it hasn't lost a step. I'm 185is and typically ski 28 through mid 38 (on a good day).  Previously, I would only get 2 years out of a ski before it got that sluggish feel to it.  I hope the Fish lasts another 3 years, casue I doubt I'll ever be able to buy another new one.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

There’s no absolute answer.  I broke down a high end ski in about 2 months, but there are a couple of shortline guys riding 5 year old X-5s. 

 

I think it depends a lot on how much you stress the ski.  If you’re 140 lbs running 38 very smooth, a ski should last several years.  If you’re 200 lbs yanking and cranking at 32 off, you could go through a ski a season.

 

The telltale signs are when your consistency goes to crap or you are struggling with easy passes.  The best way to find out is to try a newer ski of the same type or put it on a flex tester (assuming you have the original flex numbers).

Or you could just buy a Goode.  They don’t break down. 

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

[Thomas Wayne]

"Or you could just buy a Goode.  They don’t break down."

 No, they just break up.

TW

[Boody]

"Or you could just buy a Goode.  They don’t break down."

Well........I did.  Took my first set on a Goode tonight.  Been on the A1 for one year now, have about 150 sets or so on it.  I do ok on it, but it hasn't got me thru 38, a few times in practice, when the stars were all aligned, but I am sick of 2 or 3 at 38 in tournaments.

Watching all the Big Dawg skiers on the Goode got me wondering.   Other than that, I have never considered a Goode.

I saw a Goode SL9900 on ski-it-again with just 6 sets for only $850 so I said screw it and bought it.  Took my first set on it tonight, 28,28, 32,32, 35,35 and 2.5 at 38 (off the dock).  That is exactly what I do on my A1 for the most part, but I was happy to get that considering it was the first time on the ski.  I do think there is something the Goode.  It was very light and fast, pretty stable too.

Now I have a double header tournament this weekend and am really wondering what ski.  I should probably stick to my A1 because I have so many sets on it.  Riding the Goode with just one set under my belt is crazy, right?

[MrJones]

Boody,

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result."

You should have good drivers, probably some buds who see you ski a lot for feedback on the new stick. If you ski really well it will give you great confidence in the ski. If you don't, what the heck... you just got on it! Heck, the theme here is the "honeymoon period." If we frequently ski well on new skis right at first, why not get some scores out of it? No down side as far as I can see. Ride it and let us know how it went on Monday.

sj

[MrJones]

Sorry. The "honeymoon thread" is a different one. I stand by everything else.

sj

[Chef23]

Boody,

Is skiing on the Goode going to affect your livelihood?  Probably not.  Based on that I would say try the Goode particularly if you can get another set or two on it before the tournament.  There is no real downside other than a poor result at the tournament which isn't going to kill you.

[Chef23]

So if I ski 3-6 sets a week from June 15-Sept 15 how many seasons does that equate to.  Say I get a 100 sets on the ski.  I am a big guy at 6' 230 poiunds and ski into 32 off so not super short line.  I have never broken a ski but I have to imagine I am not the most gentle guy on a ski.

 I have to tell you my wife is going to be pissed if I need another $1K ski next year.

[adam]

I flex tested my old 67.5 2005 Sixam and my new 67.5 SS using a flex tester I bought from M. Erb (recommended).  I was surprised to see that the old ski was stiffer down the whole lenght of the ski by about 5%.  I don't know what the original flex was on the old ski so I can't tell if it got softer, but the consistency of the offside turn has gone way down.  I can still ski pretty decent on the old ski which I used at Regionals and nationals (5 @38 and 3 @38--actually 3.5 @38 if the tower judges weren't so blind).  The new SS just seems more peppy or snappy and definitely more consistent.  I don't know what to think about the old ski being stiffer and the new ski feeling more lively?? 

Adam

[scoke]

" I can still ski pretty decent on the old ski which I used at Regionals and nationals (5 @38 and 3 @38--actually 3.5 @38 if the tower judges weren't so blind)."

 

Nationals: Which division did you ski?

I sat in a judges tower for 3 hours.....

[adam]

M3.  I was one of the last skiers on the low seed lake (Turnpike).  I needed to judge some myself to upgrade to senior and got stuck in a tower for 1 1/2 divisions (3 hours).  I don't believe there were tons of volunteers, so the officials were getting stuck on towers for hours.  I can say that I wasn't overly impressed with some of the calls while I was on the tower and obviously while I was on the water.  Anyway, I didn't really want to hijack this thread with a discussion about officiating.  Next year, I hope the divisions aren't split between two lakes like the last several years.  The N-S lake was better all around and the last 5 or 6 skiers or more on the Turnpike lake had a legitimate chance to podium, but the conditions weren't the same. 

[MrJones]

Shouldn't be a shortage of judges next year. 2 lakes and 7 days? Not hard to find judges for only two lakes.

sj

[RichardDoane]

I've done the ACJ thing over the years for just our local tournaments, and I couldn't image trying to staff a 4 lake site for that many days.  Thanks go out to everyone who helps out, whether it's in a tower, or just cleaning up the promo boats.  It wouldn't be possible without the volunteers.

[Boody]

Looks like I divorced my A1.  Just a few sets on the Goode before the tournament today, ran a 38 in practice and got a tournament PB today of 4.5 @38.  I am pretty psyched, I haven't PB'd in a long long time. I didn't know what to do, pump my fist?  Jump for joy?  I am so used to just swimming back to shore.  It was a great feeling.  The 9900 is working very well for me. 

I really wonder now about how skis break down and if that was the problem with my A1, it used to feel great.  Oh well, not looking back now.

[MrJones]

Congrats Boody!. PB's don't come often when you have been doing this sport for any length of time. I recommend lots of smiling, thinly veiled bragging, a bit of false humility, etc, etc. Now just finish off that 38 tomorrow!

 

[teammalibu]

If you flexed the ski when you got it on your custom teammalibu flex tester you could check it when ever and there would be no question.

[MrJones]

A shameless plug teammalibu...  but you are right.

[Boody]

Thanks guys, looks like Horton and I PB'd on the same day with the same score!  Ironical.  Scott, its a 9900 SL.  I can't wait to get some more practice on it, me likey. 

[Horton]

Ok Boody,

I call for a forum grudge match. When is your next tournament?  I have 4 rounds left this year.

[Roger]

Congrats Boody. I highly recommend you flex test your 9900 ASAP. Then you will have a baseline to compare to if your skiing seems to take a downward turn. Too many 9900s have broken down (IMO) to not do this. We have a club member who got one and skied great on it at first, but gradually had more and more issues. He went back on his 9200 and is skiing great again. He did not flex the 9900, so I cannot say for sure that it broke down, but this skier is a pretty consistent mid 39 to shallow 41 off skier (and is again now that he moved back). If I bought a 9900, I would flex it immediately... (really should flex any new ski if you can. I have the numbers for my Fischer, flexed it before I even skied on it).

 

[Boody]

"Ok Boody,

I call for a forum grudge match. When is your next tournament?  I have 4 rounds left this year."

Horton, grudge match it is but you are a better skier than me. I just do a ton of tournaments so I am bound to bust out a good score every now and then.  I have about 8 rounds left this year.  The next tournament is Diablo Shores, then a few tournaments in Sac.  Like I don't have enough pressure already, what have I done? 

First one to get a full 5 wins!

[Horton]

deal.

I am not sure I am a better skier but anything for fun. Tell ya what is fun is skiing against MS. He is a way better skier but I almost always beat him because he crumbles when I am on the dock.

[Old MS Accout]

Its those stupid looking goggles he wears. You cant stop laughing at him when he skis.     

[Horton]

I believe that WaterSki Mag said the goggles were sexy

[RichardDoane]

Are there prescription lenses in those goggles ?

[Horton]

Nope - cheap floating saftry Googs - when you ski in a BallOfSpray you need to keep the water out of your eyes

[ForrestGump]

hell, I can't help but laugh every time I see a picture of him in his gawgles. I'd probably fall off the dock and break my ankle if I saw it in person!

[disland]

two comments

 1. I dont think flex test accurately tests if a ski has broken down. There is a big difference between static and dynamic load and response. Obviuosly on the water it is a dynamic load and on a flex tester it is static. It is an indicater but certainly not  extact.

2. Regarding judges. I have no idea why they have 2 judges in a slalom tower. A few cameras save a lot of judge hours in towers., and cost of hotel rooms ect.

[Horton]

Dave,

About flex. Yes I could not agree more.

[Boody]

Regarding the goggles, my theory is true.  Once you reach Mens 3, you suddenly become more concerned with being comfortable than cool.  According to my theory, it gets worse as you get older.  By the time you reach Mens 5, you are wearing head bands, wrist bands, spray leg, goggles, neoprene shorts (for less drag), back brace, knee brace, tennis elbow brace and possibly a bandana.

[Dirt]

Horton has been wearing goggles since as long as I can remember. He is retro and in style again. He is like Parris Hilton except not hot.

[tsixam]

I agree dynamic load is far more important. Any way, I received a “new†ski, (less than 50 sets on it) today. For fun I measured the flex with my home made “flex machineâ€Â. I simply put a 50lbs weight on the ski and measured at several points how much it bent compared to my old ski. It is obvious that the old ski is softer than the new one. The difference was between 0.0197 in to 0,0472 in. The softest spot was behind the back binding. I understand that 50lbs is nothing compared to the force you get when you are skiing short line. It is going to be interesting to try the new ski on the water. I am sure I will notice a huge difference. 

Does anyone know how  many G´s you put on a ski when skiing?

 

Tsixam

[tsixam]

I tried theâ€Ânew†ski today. It is definitely time for divorce. This ski was much faster and it seemed like it was riding higher in the water too. The tip didn´t dig in so hard at the end of the turn. Skiing was much more effortless. I’ll have to make a wish list for next summer.

Tsixam

[DW]

How many G's?  I found something called a lateral accel and lean calculator and it is for calculating data on motorcycles.  Probably not a bad estimate, so if you plug in 20 mph (average buoy rounding speed I guessed at) and a radius of 12' (the boat keeps moving as one rounds the buoy, so I guessed somewhere between 10-12') you come up with 2.23 g's and a lean anble of 65.8 degrees.  Does not sound too far off based on my experience in cars and on skis.  I think you get as much loading on a hard pull, say 600# rope tension for a 150 # skier = 4 g's but there is no radius on this, mainly longitudinal loading.  Feel free to grouse about my estimates, if you have better ones, great, I can make a more "accurate" calculation.

[Gern Blanston]

In the West Coast Slalom DVD, they put a pull meter on Terry Winter and Marcus Brown.  They had maximum pulls of 800lbs and sustained pulls of 350 to 400 pounds.  If those guys weigh in the 150 range, they're cranking 2 to 5 times their body weight.

[tsixam]

I have heard somewhere that a short line skier pulls about 3-4 times their bodyweight. My ski buddy is a heavy slamdunker, sometimes it feels like his is stopping the boat around 1,3,and 5.  Probably 6-8 g´s! No wonder that some waterskiers have arms like Popeye!

Thank´s DW

Tsixam

[DW]

I have heard similar numbers, I also heard AM has pulled over 1000 #'s.  The key here is to separate the instantaneous G levels compared to a more sustained G level.  Rope hits are certainly not sustained, but I am sure pretty darn high!  Needless to say, shortline skiers are certainly pulling over a couple of G's in the course several times.  The other interesting element is the neck and head is removed from the load through rope as that is taken up down to the ski and the load around the buoy is vertical through the body.  To the original question, a slalom ski certainly takes a lot of abuse during it's lifetime and thus wearout / breakdown due to repeated loading is an issue.

Paul Tracy once recorded an Indy car crash at 44 G's w/o serious injury at Road America.

[tsixam]

My ski has crossed the wakes about 20000 times…and I was wondering if I really need to get a new ski..

Tsixam