Ski Advice for Poor Technique

[hogexpress]

i've been a 'lurker' for about 6 mths but enjoy the knowledge shared here. i'm trying to take the lazy way out and see if anyone can recommend a ski that will make up for my bad habits.

i've been on goode for about 6 years (9500/9600/9800) and have had a love/hate relationship with these skis.  i have a bad habit of getting on the front of the ski as the line gets shorter (esp on my off side).  it's my experience that these skis are not very forgiving to my 'style'. 

i'm running 28/32 great but 35 and into 38 is where i start to have problems with balance, reaching forward, breaking @ waist, etc.

i ski @ 34 and 160#.  anyone with suggestions/recommendations for a ski that will compensate for my lousy technique?

thanks keith

 

 

[HO 410]

Not the answer you're looking for.

 http://www.proskicoach.com/pros/coaching/

 

Demo all the skis you can, you may find something that smooths out your skiing: D3 has a reputation of being a very smooth ski. But when you start to flirt with big blue, there is no substitute for simply skiing better.

 

 

[robscholl-OF]

Keith,

I have same issues and know if I don't correct my form, I will maybe scap out 35 off, but never anything more.  I went to a Radar Carbon Senate which is a forgiving ski, but still capable of running into 38.  I have seen it done not only on my ski, but on other Senates.  I like it because it still allows me to have fun skiing while I work on the things I need to get better.  If and when I get there and can run my 32/35 clean with good form, I will step up to that premium ski.

It is my belief that many of us ski on a ski that is far better than us.  We think the ski is going to fix us, but in watching the good skiers who have good form, it is not the ski, but the person on it.  There are many good skis out there that are forgiving enough so we can have fun, but good enough to take us deep shortline.  You can see me ski on the internet tournament thread and see my issues.  If I had footage of me before getting on the Senate, you would see how far I have come in year and a half getting my form to where it is at now.  My hope is that with me taking more video of myself and continued work on my form, I will get to be, "That guy."     

I have watched many good form skiers be able to ski well on about any ski they get on.  They just ski a little better on the one that matches their style.  So I say, take a step back and get on a ski that allows you to have fun, but forgiving enough so you can work on the things you need to.     

[Deke]

What is it that you feel a ski like the Senate does that helps you progress?  I am one who more recently, through coaching, has "discovered" how important good technique is.  Believe me, at 15 off I have a long way to go!  I ski on a D3 RC and never really felt like the ski was getting in the way.  Then again, I haven't tried anything else.  Any more thoughts about this?

[Thomas Wayne]

I second OF's suggestion for the Senate C.  Richard D.'s early review of it sold me on trying one, and I skied it for about 3 weeks.  Ultimately I choose an A1 for my next ski, but during my time on the Senate I was VERY impressed wtih how forgiving it was.  Three of my ski partners tried it, two of them thought it held more promise than either the RS-1 or the Elite (as did I).  (For the sake of completeness I should mention that the fourth player couldn't turn three balls with the thing, but we are all at a loss to explain that oddity).

I weighed 220 this summer, and the Senate C I tried is a 67".  I also tried the 69" Senate, and found it to be too much ski for full speed (34.2 mph).  At 32 and slower the 69" was actually pretty impressive; it's huge (a canoe, actually), but the damn thing turns on a dime(!).  Ultimately the 67" was better for full speed and shorter lines, and my partner that kept it regularly skied it into -38'.  If you try a 69" I recommend that you force yourself to ignore how big it feels - if you ski it as you normally would you'll be very surprised at how nimble that behemoth can actually be.

I'm pretty sure the Senate mold is essentially identical in sidecut & rocker to the RS-1 - it's just a little wider.  This added width means a 67" Senate actually has 3 sq-inches greater surface area than a 68" RS-1, but the silbing relationship is unmistakable, and I would feel very confident recommending this ski for you.  It's very forgiving of technical errors, and I can guarantee it won't hold you back.

 TW

 

 

[ForrestGump]

The Senate C is a fabulous ski for training.  This year I got on one in March, slowed it down to 32.3mph, and worked on technique up through 35 off. I picked up my pb by 6 buoys and improved my average 9 buoys this year once I sped back up to 34.2.  That said, the Elite I'm on now seems to have very similar surface area, width, etc. And it sure seems to be a stable, easy ride. But is that the ski or is that the fact that the SC allowed me to break some of those bad habits before I got on the Elite.

[hogexpress]

thanks for the suggestions.  i will look into the Senate/Elite.  up until now i've been looking at d3 b/c people use descriptive words like forgiving, and stable and they seem to build a quality product.

keith

 

[robscholl-OF]

I just went to the SC because Richard Doane got tired of me sucking on my D3 CustomX.  He gave me the SC he was on when he went to an RS-1.  He is now on a A-1.  I just know I have got much better with the little bit wider and forgiving ski.  I attribute this to being able to work on me, and not worry about the ski.  I am currently debating on trying a Z7, as the SC is on its forth year.  If you do get on the Z7, let me know what you think.

OF   

[clemsondave]

My vote would be for an X5 (I think '06 was the best year). Extremely stable ski with a huge sweet spot. I was on one for 3 years before switching to a Z7. The X5 made up for a lot of mistakes.

[Skihack]

I have tried many skis and found the Radar skis to be the best all round. But that is just my opinion, you should try many skis first. I ride a 67 Theory at 30mph and a 67 Senate-C at 34.2mph. Both skis will run 39.5" off. Have never tried 41 off. The thing that I like about these skis is they ride good from 15 off all the way to 39.5 off. Most high end skis beat you to death at low speeds and lower line lengths.

[hogexpress]

i test drove an x5 @ trophy lakes couple years back.  i felt like it was a ski i could get used to.  i've been looking @ the z7.

what's the difference b/w the x5 and z7?  clemsondave, i believe i read on one the forums your review and that you like the z7.

just started looking a radar.  several people have mentioned the senate.  the pricing on this ski would make it worth looking @ if nothing else.

anyone with any comparision experience b/w radar and d3? 

[londonskier]

Hi Hogexpress. I think everyone is different and you def need to try before you buy. I currently ski an Elite 67 (175 lbs). I ski at 34 and get into 32 off. For me the D3 was really stable (the RCX), but lacked the "cast out" to the bouy that I like. The Radar RS1 was scary.  Twitchy and too fast (maybe too good for me). So i've gone with the Elite.  It's ok and I think I can work with it. Still getting used to it. I only heard about the senate c after I bought the Elite.  Have since seen a few guys ride them and they look really stable with the tip keeping down.  I just saw officers video on it , looks good;- and would def try it.  But like I said, "Each to their own".  Let us know what you go for.

[hogexpress]

just purchased a 'demo' z7 for h20z.  i'm right on the fence weight wise b/w 65/66" (160#'s).  they recommended the 65" but said they would swap it out with 66" no problem if it worked better. 

should be here today/tomorrow and will post first impressions.  

thanks for all the input.

[hogexpress]

ran 1st time on 65 z7.  wiley binding in center hole (29"3/8).  ran right up into 35'.  normally will run 35 on the goode.  ski feels amazingly similar to the goode except the front of the ski has alot less tendency to bite.  seems to be just as fast, glided nicely into the turn on both sides. 

ski seemed to get too deep on my onside.   ski wanted to roll over to aggressively.  2nd set i put both boots 1 hole back.  this seemed to really grease the finish of the turns but was loosing angle off the ball and across back of boat.

6.86/2.51/.761(8.012) 7degrees

will be on it again tomorrow.

 

[GMC]

I was just about to post a thread asking this question, but maybe you can answer my question easily.  How far is "one hole back"?  5/16"?  I just got some numbers to try and that was the call for the bindings.  Mine are on a sliding plate, I can put them anywhere, I just need a dimension.

[hogexpress]

yes, that's what the holes in my wiley plate measure out to be.

[hogexpress]

after about 6 -7 sets on the z7 i have found it be stable and forgiving just as everyone has mentioned.  compared to my old 9800 the general feeling is i have more ski/stability underneath me. 

i've been able to pay more attention and maintain form/technique on the z7.  edge changing earlier and casting out much better. the ski finishes turns nicer even if i tend to rush the finish a bit.

is anyone running 1 hole back with dft .725-.710 with any success?  34mph/160#'s left foot forward. 

 

 

 

 

[GMC]

I just set mine to "one hole back" (29 3/16") for tonight's run.  I have always been running more DFT than that, up to 0.750 for tonight and it rocked.  66" ski, 175 lbs, 36 mph, RFF. 

I did back-to-back sets with my 9800 Monday night.  I will not be going back.  The Zed is really drama-free, changes edges and carries speed so much better.  The tip stays down and it just stays with you.  I'm not sure it's more "forgiving" than the 9800 but it takes alot less effort.  It seems pretty sensitive to weight distribution but that could just be the cold, hard, fast October water (58 degF).

[Jim Neely]

Hogexpress,

Have you convinced Jim and Mark to switch to the Z7?

[hogexpress]

hey jim,

they have both ridden it.  it's too small for mark.  jim likes it.  i think he's circling the bait.  probably only a matter of time.  sorta like going to 'look' at puppies.

 

 

[hogexpress]

gmc,

'drama free' - that's a great description (esp in ref to my 9800).  am going to try 1 hole back this afternoon.  i've been up to .76 dft but am now back @ .735 which seems to work alittle better for me.  i'm 160#'s @ 34mph.