Baller Chuck_Dickey Posted March 1, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2011 Nautique 200 CB or OB or PS-197 ? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted March 1, 2011 Administrators Share Posted March 1, 2011 Wow Chuckthis is like teasing hungry dogs with raw meat Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chuck_Dickey Posted March 1, 2011 Author Baller Share Posted March 1, 2011 I have been a MC fan for years and will probably stay MC. I have heard good things about the CC200, which is why I posted the question. I've also read some discussion from some with the CC200 that are changing out props and wishing  they'd have bought the 6.0 ltr 409 motor for better hole shot. Kinda makes me wonder if CC has this new boat figured out or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemsondave Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 CC promo guy here. I do like the MC, but it has the worst hole shot of any boat out there. On our short setup lakes around here they have a difficult time. I still have the factory prop on my 200, smaller motor and never use more than 1/4 to 1/2 throttle to pull even the biggest guy up. Not sure about using the other prop. To me, it kinda defeats the purpose of having a new boat. I want to practice behind exactly what I will have at a tournament. CC will have the smaller wake from -28 and longer. If you pull anyone at slower speeds, CC really works better. At short line, both are excellent. Both drive well but I'd give a slight edge to the 200. Of course the 200OB is more expensive. I'd say drive/ski both and see what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 We tested props extensively when we got our demo 200 with the 343hp in August. We settled on the 422 prop that lowers the rpm 500+ and there is NO issue with holeshot. It's just slightly less than the stock 1868 but no one notices it. A big jumper will pull it down with the 343 and 422 prop, but then again you're not going to be pulling an open jumper with a 343 anyway. FWIW Dave, it doesn't change the wake just lowers the rpm so you don't go deaf which is why we have it. I don't agree with the statement that the 200 is more expensive than the 197. My ski partner is a dealer for both and the 197s MSRP is about $2k more than the 200. The big test on any boat at our lake is whether the kids can ski behind it. They love the 200, the 197 is a close second, and they claim the wake of the RLXI is like skiing behind a cruise liner. LOL. When we sell this demo 200, we might end up in a 197. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemsondave Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The other prop won't change the wake, but it will change the way the motor reacts to the skier. Not saying one is better than the other, it's just not what you will face at a tournament. Wow, I didn't know the 197 was that expensive. I thought it was close to a 200 closed bow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jdarwin Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 Shane - the MSRP "may" be $2k higher but most of the folks on these boards are interested in buying a promo. Therefore, the MSRP is irrelevant. As for promo costs, the 197 can be significantly less when comparing a CC200 OB similarly equipped. I priced both last year when contemplating a move back into the promo world. I'll be making those same overtures again this year and I anticipate a significant difference once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCskiFreak Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 There is a change for the 197 that I have not heard much about on any of these boards. The new strut design that MC released does clean up the wake some, and there is also a jump in efficiency due to the better flow over the prop. Just food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jdarwin Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 MCskiFreak - I drove a 2011 197 at Collegiate Regionals at Bennett's back in October. I made the comment that I thought it drove much better than the 2010's I had driven and the wake "looked" smaller. I then had a chance to ski behind it and was impressed. I inquired about any changes but no one knew anything. Your comment makes total sense. The driving experience was very similar to my CC200 and the wake at 28-35 seemed much improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCskiFreak Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Glad to hear that you noticed the improvement, it is something that as a Naval Architecture student I was interested in, but hadnt heard much from anyone on hear or on TT about it. Are you based in LA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sullivan Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 My 197 WTT will not be slow with the new Ilmore 6.0. The new interior is the best yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 I agree that the 11 197 is improved to drive. But the 2 11 197s I skied behind(Jodi Fisher's and a local one here) have had a HUGE, STIFF wake at 28 off. Even the 39 off Big Dawg skier that was there commented on it. Now both of those boats had the full tower so I don't know if that had anything to do with it. I was surprised at how nasty stiff it was at 28 considering all of the the 2010 197s felt so soft to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jdarwin Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 MCskiFreak - yes I'm in Lousiana.Shane - that's why I asked if anything had changed. It seemed like a completely different boat. It did not have a tower - possibly the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted March 2, 2011 Baller_ Share Posted March 2, 2011 just say "no" to towers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 Then where am I supposed to do my chin=ups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 I would think it very well could be the tower. What does the avg factory tower weigh? I think we all notice when there is that full tank of gas or extra people in the boat that the wake is bigger, and would have to think the tower is weight-equivalent. Now make it a tower w/full gas and an extra person in the boat...probably gets pretty stiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 Towers rock! My new 11 MC has a tower. At 28 and deeper the wake is almost gone. Perhaps weighting the front of the boat (which the tower does) flattens out the wake a bit. There is also a ballast tank in front of the passenger seat to additionally weight the front. Unfortunately, the gas tank is huge and if filled completely can offset all the benefits from the forward weighting of the tower and ballast. I try not to run over 50% full of gas. Proper weighting of the boat matters. However at 15 off and slower speeds, my new boat's wake is rough for slalom. Lisa is not happy with it. Of course it could be ZO as she's never skied ZO before for slalom.I love the slalom wake for my level (running the occasional 32 off and comfortable with ZO C3) as has everybody else who has skied deep shortline behind it.The trick wake is fantastic!The hole shot is fine for my short lake with the stock prop.I do not yet have the new strut on the boat. I will report when I get one to install.Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bulldog Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 Why did MC change engine manufactures? If this was discussed before I am sorry. "Do Better..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCskiFreak Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Bulldog, They wanted to try and differentiate themselves from the other mfgs. and I also think to lesson the hold that Indmar had on the industry. The Ilmor engines do have a lot of nice features that make them a lot easier to serivce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted March 2, 2011 Baller_ Share Posted March 2, 2011 Ilmor engines will be the only manufacturer available in the 2012 Mastercraft models. That's one of the reasons I ordered this year's 197TT with the Ilmor 6.0.  I've heard that the money behind Ilmor is also involved with the ownership of MC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bulldog Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 Thanks Guys, any details on the "nice features that make them easier to service" ? My indmar is pretty easy for oil changes and the usual user service stuff. Maybe Ilmor will be the reason for a new boat. "Do Better..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sullivan Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Engine and Transmission cooler in one. I think other manufacutureres only have a transmission cooler. Remote mount oil filter with easy access and drain tray. Remote mount thermostat and water pump "True" Serpentine auto tensioning belt system. Okay!? High mounted alternator, starter. Centrally located fuse and breakers.  More power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 Impeller access? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCskiFreak Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Richard, Ilmor is one of Richard Penske's ventures, and he used to own a stake in MC, but he sold that off to an investment company in 2009. As of January Ilmor became the standard engine for MC while indmar remains an option until the start of the 2012 model year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted March 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2011 The Ilmor deal was hatched and R&D started in 2007 when Penske controlled mastercraft and Ilmor. He's famous for those business to business deals. In June of 09, Penske allowed Wayzata Investment Partners to convert their bond debt to equity and take over Mastercraft. Regardless of who owned MC, the Ilmor deal still made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GAJ0004 Posted March 27, 2011 Baller Share Posted March 27, 2011 If you are looking for a demo boat. Bill's Midway Marina in Conneaut Lake PA has a Freddy Krueger Nightmare Edition Master Craft PS190 from 2009. It was used up at Dave's Pond in Edinboro PA. The boat was kept in a closed boat house while in use on a lift. Their club driver is an expert at tuning and setting up ski boats. I have skied behind this boat at a clinic. I really liked it. It has the 400HP engine and ZeroOff. Go to http://www.billsmidwaymarina.com . The phone number and email addresses are there. Ask for Michelle. Tell her Gary Janzig sent you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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