An Open Letter To ZO

[Ed_Obermeier]

ZO is the best thing that happened to competitive water skiing. Maybe not backyard slalom, or the INT league, or folks just starting out...but if you're just starting out, you don't NEED any speed control.

 

Gotta respectfully disagree with that statement OB. Consistanty of pull, regardless of the speed or level you ski at, has to be a net positive. Can't improve without consistancy, both in your skiing style and in the pull you're working with.

[usaski1]

@Danbirch - its an Indmar 08, DBW. I called around at the time, and seemed like it was going to be $1000 or more for an ECM.. what a rip. that killed ZO for me.. I hope the z-box works well.. not enough test data yet or real world experience. And I hope they sell 20,000 z-boxes..

 

[usaski1]

@Danbirch - its an Indmar 08, DBW. I called around at the time, and seemed like it was going to be $1000 or more for an ECM.. what a rip. that killed ZO for me.. I hope the z-box works well.. not enough test data yet or real world experience. And I hope they sell 20,000 z-boxes..

 

[jackski]

@ OB I think everyone has forgotten that PP was developed with input from, and wishes off all the skiers, especially the elite. Eric Horton spent a lot of time tweaking and changing to give skiers what they wanted. That's not the way ZO was developed.

[jackski]

@ OB I think everyone has forgotten that PP was developed with input from, and wishes off all the skiers, especially the elite. Eric Horton spent a lot of time tweaking and changing to give skiers what they wanted. That's not the way ZO was developed.

[Horton]

You guys ever make your woman super mad? Is that the best time to buy flowers or sit around the house reading playboy?I do not have to explain the analogy do I?

 

ZO is not why awsa has lost so much membership but it sure showed up during a perfect storm.

[Horton]

You guys ever make your woman super mad? Is that the best time to buy flowers or sit around the house reading playboy?I do not have to explain the analogy do I?

 

ZO is not why awsa has lost so much membership but it sure showed up during a perfect storm.

[6balls]

ZO could be simpler, but I do appreciate the advantages expressed in the open letter above. It would be best if it sticks around for a long time rather than having some other non-retrofit system. Each time a new system takes over a new boat would be required to have the latest system and most can't afford them. As long ZO remains the player and software is able to be upgraded on older ZO boats, it will be fine with some time. Older ZO boats w/nice hulls will become affordable.

Cost of boats, move to private water, lack of perceived value with membership, and allocation of one's free time have all contributed to declines in membership and tourney participation.

 

[6balls]

ZO could be simpler, but I do appreciate the advantages expressed in the open letter above. It would be best if it sticks around for a long time rather than having some other non-retrofit system. Each time a new system takes over a new boat would be required to have the latest system and most can't afford them. As long ZO remains the player and software is able to be upgraded on older ZO boats, it will be fine with some time. Older ZO boats w/nice hulls will become affordable.

Cost of boats, move to private water, lack of perceived value with membership, and allocation of one's free time have all contributed to declines in membership and tourney participation.

 

[lhoover]

Jackski, respectfully disagree. ZO was developed with the aid and studious input of Andy Mapple, Freddy Krueger, and Natalia Berdnikava. When ZO first came on the market, they had 3 choices for slalom and 6 for jump. Not enough choices, the masses screamed! So...after all the caterwauling and hissy fits thrown, once again, by the folks who buy the least expensive boat the Big 3 make, ZO gets the team together and offers more choices on the next version. Good Grief, I don't know why they give us the time of day as we (3 event) are the smallest, no, TINIEST segment of the water sports industry. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the best skiers in the world just keep upping the records, almost yearly, because of the ONE consistent thing they can count on among a plethora of variables in an outdoor sport....ZO. Ed, does that sound sarcastic to you?

[lhoover]

Jackski, respectfully disagree. ZO was developed with the aid and studious input of Andy Mapple, Freddy Krueger, and Natalia Berdnikava. When ZO first came on the market, they had 3 choices for slalom and 6 for jump. Not enough choices, the masses screamed! So...after all the caterwauling and hissy fits thrown, once again, by the folks who buy the least expensive boat the Big 3 make, ZO gets the team together and offers more choices on the next version. Good Grief, I don't know why they give us the time of day as we (3 event) are the smallest, no, TINIEST segment of the water sports industry. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the best skiers in the world just keep upping the records, almost yearly, because of the ONE consistent thing they can count on among a plethora of variables in an outdoor sport....ZO. Ed, does that sound sarcastic to you?

[JC McCavit]

After reading this entire post, I have decided that less is more. This post made me really appreciate that PP has given us "have nots" the Zbox. Now my $15,000.00 97 Nautique provides a very low cost training alternative that makes tournament skiing affordable. I would say to the "haves" look out, there is no longer a training advantage. The Zbox has provided us "have nots" with the money to train with a ZO feel and spend thousands on good coaching to improve our buoy count.

[JC McCavit]

After reading this entire post, I have decided that less is more. This post made me really appreciate that PP has given us "have nots" the Zbox. Now my $15,000.00 97 Nautique provides a very low cost training alternative that makes tournament skiing affordable. I would say to the "haves" look out, there is no longer a training advantage. The Zbox has provided us "have nots" with the money to train with a ZO feel and spend thousands on good coaching to improve our buoy count.

[Ntq206]

As a newcomer to the sport, I will weigh in a bit here and add my .02;

 

This is a very hardcore ski forum (great work John BTW) - and certainly brings some very skilled competitive skiers out of the woodwork.

Having said that, keep in mind that there is a whole other vast group out there who do not compete, and will never compete.

ZO may only a barrier for those who wish to compete in tournaments as far as I can see. For myself, I only compete with myself.

 

For an intermediate skier, the limiting factor to progressing has far more to do with the dude strapped to the ski.

PP is perfectly fine for what I do.

 

This sport is still relatively inaccessible comparatively speaking - I got into this sport by pure accident almost.

IMHO, growing this sport has more to do with exposure, image and accessibility than a ZO boat.

[Ntq206]

As a newcomer to the sport, I will weigh in a bit here and add my .02;

 

This is a very hardcore ski forum (great work John BTW) - and certainly brings some very skilled competitive skiers out of the woodwork.

Having said that, keep in mind that there is a whole other vast group out there who do not compete, and will never compete.

ZO may only a barrier for those who wish to compete in tournaments as far as I can see. For myself, I only compete with myself.

 

For an intermediate skier, the limiting factor to progressing has far more to do with the dude strapped to the ski.

PP is perfectly fine for what I do.

 

This sport is still relatively inaccessible comparatively speaking - I got into this sport by pure accident almost.

IMHO, growing this sport has more to do with exposure, image and accessibility than a ZO boat.

[Razorskier1]

For the past five years I've practiced 80% behind SG, 10% ZO and 10% PP classic. The SG is on my MC 197, the ZO is a 2007 LXI, and the PP is on a 2000 Nautique 196. I ski the same scores behind all three. While ZO is different than PP or SG, and I can feel the difference, after my warm up passes I'm fine at my shorter lines behind any of the three. Sometimes I think we let it get in our heads and instead of skiing we think about the system. I think if you just go out there and ski you will find that you can adapt to any of the three in less than one set.

[Razorskier1]

For the past five years I've practiced 80% behind SG, 10% ZO and 10% PP classic. The SG is on my MC 197, the ZO is a 2007 LXI, and the PP is on a 2000 Nautique 196. I ski the same scores behind all three. While ZO is different than PP or SG, and I can feel the difference, after my warm up passes I'm fine at my shorter lines behind any of the three. Sometimes I think we let it get in our heads and instead of skiing we think about the system. I think if you just go out there and ski you will find that you can adapt to any of the three in less than one set.

[bkreis]

I love zo! Personally I feel it's easy on our bodies and allows us to establish a rhythm w the boat easliy!

[bkreis]

I love zo! Personally I feel it's easy on our bodies and allows us to establish a rhythm w the boat easliy!

[501Brandon]

For me it was simply the 3K for the upgrade (Zo, ECM, Malibu Harness) I didnt WANT to spend the money... ZO could have really helped and still could help themselves by offering an exchange program on the ECM's. Not sure its possible or feasible, they may not even care since they kind of have the market cornered at this point being its the "Approved" system.

 

One thing I would like to add as a side note that may or may not sit well with some of you and I apologize if it doesnt but anyone who has been in this sport for more than a minute or two knows how much skis, ropes, gloves, etc cost... We aslo know how much boats cost (generally speaking). Its not rocket science to research and figure out what it would take a person to build and maintain a Private site. That being said, I dont give a crap if you make 500k or or just filed bankrupt, if you want to ski and can pull your weight, lets go! If a person thinks another cant figure out within a few thousand dollars what you have into your setup your sadly mistaken. I have noticed on multiple threads reference to costs and just to remind or enlighten, money doesnt make you cool its invites false friends and puts you in a different tax bracket! I hope noone takes this personal, its just a prespective I have, its not like car or motorcycle racing where you can mod and mod and keep modding until you have tons of cash into a car or bike... Generally speaking!

[501Brandon]

For me it was simply the 3K for the upgrade (Zo, ECM, Malibu Harness) I didnt WANT to spend the money... ZO could have really helped and still could help themselves by offering an exchange program on the ECM's. Not sure its possible or feasible, they may not even care since they kind of have the market cornered at this point being its the "Approved" system.

 

One thing I would like to add as a side note that may or may not sit well with some of you and I apologize if it doesnt but anyone who has been in this sport for more than a minute or two knows how much skis, ropes, gloves, etc cost... We aslo know how much boats cost (generally speaking). Its not rocket science to research and figure out what it would take a person to build and maintain a Private site. That being said, I dont give a crap if you make 500k or or just filed bankrupt, if you want to ski and can pull your weight, lets go! If a person thinks another cant figure out within a few thousand dollars what you have into your setup your sadly mistaken. I have noticed on multiple threads reference to costs and just to remind or enlighten, money doesnt make you cool its invites false friends and puts you in a different tax bracket! I hope noone takes this personal, its just a prespective I have, its not like car or motorcycle racing where you can mod and mod and keep modding until you have tons of cash into a car or bike... Generally speaking!

[jackski]

@ lhoover - I wasn't trying to belittle Andy, Freddy or Natalia's input by any means, and Andy had some input into PP anyways along with another long gone system. But what I was trying to point out is that a huge section of skiers had wishes known, and mainly realized by Eric. So if you don't like the pull fom PP it's only that it works like it does because the majority wanted it that way.

On another note, almost every racing series has limited the amount of fuel that can be used for a paticular event. It appears to me that from the systems I have seen and used, PP classic uses the least fuel, Stargazer is next and ZO uses the most. Will legislation see us devoping systems that use less fuel ? Electric boats are not good up here as they actually pollute more because so much of our power is coal generated.

[jackski]

@ lhoover - I wasn't trying to belittle Andy, Freddy or Natalia's input by any means, and Andy had some input into PP anyways along with another long gone system. But what I was trying to point out is that a huge section of skiers had wishes known, and mainly realized by Eric. So if you don't like the pull fom PP it's only that it works like it does because the majority wanted it that way.

On another note, almost every racing series has limited the amount of fuel that can be used for a paticular event. It appears to me that from the systems I have seen and used, PP classic uses the least fuel, Stargazer is next and ZO uses the most. Will legislation see us devoping systems that use less fuel ? Electric boats are not good up here as they actually pollute more because so much of our power is coal generated.

[auskier]

@jackski I think you might want to look into your thought that electric boats pollute more. Its not quite true. For example, a tesla roadster with 100% coal generated power, equates to less CO2 released than a toyota prius going the same distance. Plus the noise, no carbon monoxide and torque benefits make it a clear win. The way we use ski boats (stop-34/36 mph-stop) would make the benefits greater than an electric car.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/greendorm/participate/cee124/TeslaReading.pdf

[rodltg2]

I'll even take this one to be part of the "Have" group!

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/rodltg2/20020nautique1.jpg

[lhoover]

Mercy, Rod, I have lived long enough to see CC make a rainbow hull. Some of us geezers remember their refusal to do so, when the multi-color California boats were coming on the scene, because colors "showed scratches". Let me put my sunglasses on and take another look. Thanks for the pic.

[ForrestGump]

Son of a bitch! That is one ugly boat! lol

[Jody_Seal]

I skied quit a bit behind that boat. My daughter utilized it all last summer. It can be had a Houston Motors, I am sure they are ready to get it off the lot! It is a nice driving and skiing 200. Even ugly Gr...Ah boats need love!

[Bulldog]

It looks like a downtown St Johns, Newfoundland, Canada street! Google it you will see I am right.

[usaski1]

I'm all about colors and stuff, but that is UGGLY!! I would pass unless its an extreme deal! Looks like a Mexican boat!

[thager]

Nothing a good vinyl wrap couldn't fix.

[jimbrake]

Rasta boat, mon.

[Hugh Nichols]

Thager, Great Idea, what do you suggest for the interior?

[6balls]

Interior looks to be yellow and gray. One could do a complimentary wrap and come out looking great.

[rodltg2]

@6balls ...It's not though, the interior is funky too.I'd call that boat mine no problem.

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/rodltg2/KGrHqZjYE8EbHIjjgBPL0zT8Tg60_3.jpg

[jlittle]

Skittles anyone?

[GAJ0004]

Whoa,, look at all the colors man..

 

[thager]

@ Hugh Nichols Very dark sunglasses!!!!

[thager]

And a barf bag.

[Bulldog]

If you barfed in the boat you would not see it….

[thager]

You know, that might be the perfect boat for a paint company like Sherwin Williams, etc. Did GaGa own this boat?

[6balls]

Aw man! S'one at the factory should have looked at that order, called the ordering entity and said "Really?"

[colo_skier]

Whats wrong guys, This boat was made to make all other boats look good. I agree it must be a have's boat in such that they must have another boat they actually use.