Do you think in feet or meters?

[Than_Bogan]

@MrsMS As do I. For one thing, this forum needs a FAR greater female presence. But more importantly we're all in the same boat (pardon the pun) regardless of which particular pass is currently beyond our reach.

[thager]

@ Mrs.MS I care! Especially when you're driving!!!!

[ScaredOfCorbets]

All of above, feet, meters, and color

[Horton]

Bump for @MattP

[MattP]

@Horton go away

[Horton]

@MattP Look at this

[MattP]

@Horton look at this

Different demographic

[ForrestGump]

I knew Canada/Minnesota was 3rd rate and this proves it! ;)

[The_MS]

Keep Minn out of this.

[Ed_Obermeier]

Being a victim of the American education system and being used to how it's generally done here I tend to think in feet or preferrably loop color. But since I also do a lot of business with skiers outside the US, in spite of that I've gotten pretty good at doing metric conversions in my head. Loop color translates to any language.

[Zman]

@horton how did I miss the beginnig of this thread - just backed up and saw the pics you posted...ruined me for the day...

[GAJ0004]

I can convert from english to metric in my head pretty easy. Temperature is the only one where I can't. Metric is easier to work with. pound=newton, measure of force, slug and kilogram, measure of mass. When I was growing up my school in Pittsburgh hammered us with the metric system. Generally easier to use, but at first harder to visualize. We were always told the U.S. would switch to it by now..

Metric is simple to understand. 1 liter of water has a mass of 1 kilogram, and if you freeze it in a shape of a cube it would be 10x10x10 centimeters. Everything else is is a matter of muliplying it by 10 or dividing it by 10. The only measure, the Newton(unit of force) is the only one I would have to read about again to be able to visualize it.

[GAJ0004]

When it comes to shortening the rope. When I think in metric I just count down from long line. 23,18,16,14,13,12,11,10,10,9

 

 

[gsm_peter]

A bit of both. But I personally would like the world to go almost metric!

 

- Speed: I understand mph, km/h, Knots, m/s. Easy to convert.

 

- Length: I use Feet, Meters, NM. (mechanical i prefer mm prior to part of an inch, 3/8, 7/16 etc)

There use to be a EU Inch (Thumb of 2,96cm prior to the US/UK Inch of 2,54 cm)

I do not like mile: 5 280 feet, 1 760 yards, 1 609 Meters

There use to be 2 different miles (US and UK almost same except for 1/2")

 

- Temp: I prefer C. I understand 100F being body temp. BUT to have a feeling of 0F is more complicated. When a mixture of ice, water, and ammonium chloride freeze.

When water freeze and when boiling is understandable and rather useful.

 

- Volume: Liters.

I understand Gallon but do not like to use it. Can be US or Imperial Gallon (3,79L or 4,54L)

Isn't there liquid and weight lbs also?

 

BUT I really like the US style using (volume per distance) mpg. To know when to fuel up make sense. The EU style of using L/10Km is stupid. One have to recalculate. I would assume it originates from money perceived as more expensive then time.

 

As the the English man said: Inch by Inc we are getting closer to the metric system.

=0)

 

[Horton]

I bring this thread back because when you guys post in Metric lots of readers have no idea what the F you you talking about. I do not care if it is the IWWF standard or not. I care what most readers understand.

[Horton]

Oooo yea that means you @MattP‌

[thager]

.001

[MattP]

@Horton‌ leave me out of this!

[Horton]

@MattP will then stop with meters or post both for us old guys.

[pgmoore]

I can't think of a single situation in which the imperial system is superior to metric.

 

Oddly, the list of countries that don't use the metric system include: Liberia, Myanmar... and the United States. It defies logic.

[Horton]

@pgmoore in the end most of the readers of this site are in the US and most of us think in feet off. It is a silly system but it is more silly that when @MattP posts in meters I have to go to the USAWS site to find the conversion table. It is the language we speak. Antiquated? Maybe, but it is what we know.

[Zman]

I think we need more picture proof that feet and inches is better. I like colors.

[buski]

Looks like there are two types of countries. Those that use the metric system and those that have put a man on the moon.

[Spuddy]

I am Canadian so my everyday life I think in metres but when I am in the boat it's always feet off and mph unless I happen to go to a tournament where I have to make sure to say "please start at 16 m at 55 K" aka 22 off at 34 mph.

[Than_Bogan]

@Horton I completely disagree. And it's not because I believe metric is far superior (which is obvious), even though I am sadly more accustomed to "feet off."

 

It's directly on your point: This site is now the de facto greatest water ski site on planet earth (Congratulations on that!). The fact that it is beginning to have an international feel is both unavoidable and awesome.

 

Yeah, somebody may have to scratch their head and ask "WTF is 10.25?" But at the same time they'll be getting to be part of a much larger international community. This ultimately makes this site much cooler.

 

And really, if you've heard of 38 off but never paid any attention to any tournament scores, do you have any sense of what it really means? It's just some random number. When I tell my office mates about 38 off, all I get is "off of what?" And when I say 11.25m, I get no questions but it still tells them absolutely nothing.

 

I contend that most people who truly understand what 38 off is also are aware that it's 11.25m. And if not, they WILL soon from hanging out right here in this international community!

[skidawg]

@horton , baby seals do not taste good, but they do make great boots!!!

[teammalibu]

Bought a complete set of metric measuring tools back in the early 80s to get ready for the change they are still in the box waiting!!

[chris_logan]

I just don't think I would understand how to buy a sports car based on acceleration from 0-96.56 kph. Why does Europe have 0-62 mph times? I'm still baffled by the fact that the tires for my Harley are metric, but fit rims measured in inches. Can't we just have feet and inches?

[Than_Bogan]

@buski I was unaware of Liberia and Myanmar's success in space exploration.

 

However, the former dictator of Myanmar was named Than, so I guess it's not surprising.

[skihard]

I use feet off because I moved to "MERICA" and that's what everyone at our lakes uses. I would hate to confuse the locals! :)

[gsm_peter]

FWIW

 

The sport is defined in meters and Km/h.

mph and feet or feet off is just rounded values.

1 KM = 1.60934 mile

1 feet = 0.3048 meter

 

 

The speed control systems hide the delta and adjust to proper speed (according to my knowledge)

When hand drive one should use the Real mph column to get defined speed.

 

Km/h mph Real mph

40 24 24,85

43 26 26,72

46 28 28,58

49 30 30,45

52 32 32,31

55 34 34,18

58 36 36,04

 

One can note that a hand driven run in mph is slower than same speed in km/h

 

 

Rope manufacturers hide the delta and adjust to proper line lengths (according to my knowledge).

Anyone that creates/modify ropes or use unknown ropes have the real lengths below

 

Loop Color Meters Feet Feet Off Real length Feet Real Feet Off

Neutral 23,00 75,00 0,00 75,46 -0,46

Red 18,25 60,00 15,00 59,88 15,12

Orange 16,00 53,00 22,00 52,49 22,51

Yellow 14,25 47,00 28,00 46,75 28,25

Green 13,00 43,00 32,00 42,65 32,35

Blue 12,00 40,00 35,00 39,37 35,63

Violet 11,25 37,00 38,00 36,91 38,09

Neutral 10,75 35,50 39,50 35,27 39,73

Red 10,25 34,00 41,00 33,63 41,37

 

 

One can note that a hand made rope in feet can be both shorter and longer than the same rope in meters pending on if one measure the real length or the take off section.

 

 

I can understand and adopt to both systems.

[Wish]

Going for the panda here.... I am feet off in my brain but as Than says, it makes little to no sense to Jo public....the very folks we are so desperate to want to love and grow the sport. Been to lots of US pro events specifically put in the most public venues only to watch the Jo public crowd scratch their heads in bewilderment as this "line off" is being announced. Even with the event happening right in front of them with me explaining what it means, I still get "...why not just say how long the rope is??? " I have no answer for that. To any logical human, it just sounds stupid. Kinda makes the sport appear stupid in a way. At the Malibu Open this year, even the Professional announcers could not do the math to help out spectators. I was laughing hearing one of them say ".....well, not gonna do the math on that but the rope doesn't reach the ball". Really?!?!?

 

Saw the 35+ Association thread (great idea BTW) and its mission to promote the sport in creative ways. They/we can start by not promoting it in the most confusing way possible. Some say..."well Jo public should learn the terminology" Really?!?! We want Jo public to learn what a 3rd grader will tell you is a weird way to explain how long a rope is?? I'd rather see a crowd of new to the sport spectators learn a real measuring system (metric) then something as backwards as "line off". But ultimately it should be announced in "feet on" with old school terminology slipped in here and there as a historical reference.

 

Awaiting my panda.

[pgmoore]

I came across this Twitter post tonight and it made be think of this thread: https://twitter.com/SciencePorn/status/504377521069367296

 

Much to my chagrin, the picture really does make a compelling argument for the imperial system :wink:

[Rpc29]

 

[Stevie Boy]

I voted Meters, simply because if you state the line length you are skiing on, it's easier for none water skiers to understand, typically the guy is now skiing on a 10.75 meter line and it is 11,5 meters from the center of the boat lane to the bouy, it helps them understand how amazing some of these skiers are.

If you use so many feet off, you have to know how many feet you started with and colours, you either have to be an official or participate in the sport.

Why don't we keep it Simples ?

 

[Edbrazil]

As a Technical Controller, I deal with metric a lot, since all the specifications for the sport are in

metric. Since about 1974, the SL course has been metric-dimensioned, for example.

Of course, the one glaring exception is jumping distances. 200 feet sounds a lot better than

60.9 meters. Even if you're a Euro-nation skier. But, driving in Europe, 100kph sounds faster

than a little over 60 mph.

 

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to use the metric side of a measuring tape and check a

lineoff loop for 12.00 meters, vs. 39 feet 4 7/16 inches.

 

When I'm doing ski course setting/adjusting, I set the target distances on my Total Station

survey instrument in metric, but then when I'm relaying adjustment to a water worker, I convert

to feet & inches. Lots of experience doing that. On rare occasions, I have had a water worker

from a metric country, such as New Zealand, and can tell them directly in meters.

 

Back when, I believe that the "foot" was taken from the size of a man's foot, perhaps an English

king in the back-when. While the meter was something like one ten millionth part of the

distance from equator to pole. Until around 1960 defined by wavelengths of light, and later

on, in 1983, related to the speed of light.

 

Note that the inch is now defined as exactly 2.54cm. Making the foot 30.48cm, exact.

 

[LeonL]

I still think in feet, and feet off. I do all rope measurements in metric. It's much easier that way.

[JWebSki]

They should add an option for what do you want to think of the rope as. I am only around people who speak in feet so that is all i know. But I wish i spoke in meters it is so much easier and the increments of shortenings make much more sense and that is how the rope is actually measured. The feet is just a conversion.

[Horton]

The poll is really about rope length

[Horton]

watching the Sr Worlds webcast and have no idea what is going on because I am too old to learn metric

[Luzz]

What's crazy is that I think meters when speaking italian and feet off when speaking english...

[Horton]

@luzz when you drink beer do yo think in ounces or milliliters?

:-)

[nzwaterski]

Living in new Zealand we are taught metric. But my ski is still a 67". And I ski at 34mph. But everything else is metric

[JJVDMZN]

The main reason the Americans got to the moon is that the moon was less than 300,000 miles (238,857) and more than 300,000 km (384,403) so in Km's it sounded a lot futher :D

 

Sometimes the Imp. system works.

[matthew]

I prefer feet off and mph.

Commenced tournaments this year, we had to conform and change over to metric.

[Edbrazil]

Note for @horton: Horton lake in 1974 had what was maybe the earliest metric SL course in

the US. Another distinction, along with being the first man-made private lake about 1968.

 

I was there in February, 1974, doing ski tests for Western Wood.

 

Jack Horton (yes, Dr. Jack, the original) had a survey transit that wasn't a total station, but

could turn 90 degree angles. Think I had a metric steel tape then. Set up a line of shore

points to turn off. Jack himself did the water work.

 

Main point is that when the metric course came in, it was significantly shorter than the foot-

dimensioned course. (259m vs. 855 ft) So, as we went along, the difference became more

and more apparent. Neat memory from the Old Days. Noted previously: as a Technical

Controller, you need to deal with metric all the time.

[Luzz]

@Horton‌ when it comes to beer, I think pints

[Edbrazil]

Couple of notes about the first posting:

Yup: 1 foot = .3048 meter, exact. As there are 2.54cm per inch exact.

Flip that around: 1 mile is 1.609344 kilometers, exact. 5280 * .3048 = 1.609344.

[gsm_peter]

 

 

@‌Horton

Why not post this picture on the front forum page for a while?

Will maybe make life easier for converting rope length Colors, Metric, Feet off

 

(I 'borrowed this picture' from skimarin.se catalog)

[klindy]

I guess I think in both feet off and meters. I've measured hundreds of ropes and I couldn't do it using imperial dimensions if I had too. But in casual conversation "feet off" is as natural as it gets.

 

Work a few international tournaments and calling in scores and confirming line lengths are always metric