Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted January 2, 2013 Supporting Member Share Posted January 2, 2013 @MrsMS As do I. For one thing, this forum needs a FAR greater female presence. But more importantly we're all in the same boat (pardon the pun) regardless of which particular pass is currently beyond our reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted January 2, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 2, 2013 @ Mrs.MS I care! Especially when you're driving!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ScaredOfCorbets Posted January 6, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 6, 2013 All of above, feet, meters, and color Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted March 2, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 2, 2013 Bump for @MattP Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted March 2, 2013 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2013 @Horton go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted March 2, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 2, 2013 @MattP Look at this Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted March 2, 2013 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2013 @Horton look at this Different demographic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted March 2, 2013 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2013 I knew Canada/Minnesota was 3rd rate and this proves it! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted March 2, 2013 Baller_ Share Posted March 2, 2013 Keep Minn out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Obermeier Posted March 2, 2013 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2013 Being a victim of the American education system and being used to how it's generally done here I tend to think in feet or preferrably loop color. But since I also do a lot of business with skiers outside the US, in spite of that I've gotten pretty good at doing metric conversions in my head. Loop color translates to any language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Zman Posted March 2, 2013 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2013 @horton how did I miss the beginnig of this thread - just backed up and saw the pics you posted...ruined me for the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GAJ0004 Posted March 3, 2013 Baller Share Posted March 3, 2013 I can convert from english to metric in my head pretty easy. Temperature is the only one where I can't. Metric is easier to work with. pound=newton, measure of force, slug and kilogram, measure of mass. When I was growing up my school in Pittsburgh hammered us with the metric system. Generally easier to use, but at first harder to visualize. We were always told the U.S. would switch to it by now.. Metric is simple to understand. 1 liter of water has a mass of 1 kilogram, and if you freeze it in a shape of a cube it would be 10x10x10 centimeters. Everything else is is a matter of muliplying it by 10 or dividing it by 10. The only measure, the Newton(unit of force) is the only one I would have to read about again to be able to visualize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GAJ0004 Posted March 3, 2013 Baller Share Posted March 3, 2013 When it comes to shortening the rope. When I think in metric I just count down from long line. 23,18,16,14,13,12,11,10,10,9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gsm_peter Posted March 10, 2013 Baller Share Posted March 10, 2013 A bit of both. But I personally would like the world to go almost metric! - Speed: I understand mph, km/h, Knots, m/s. Easy to convert. - Length: I use Feet, Meters, NM. (mechanical i prefer mm prior to part of an inch, 3/8, 7/16 etc) There use to be a EU Inch (Thumb of 2,96cm prior to the US/UK Inch of 2,54 cm) I do not like mile: 5 280 feet, 1 760 yards, 1 609 Meters There use to be 2 different miles (US and UK almost same except for 1/2") - Temp: I prefer C. I understand 100F being body temp. BUT to have a feeling of 0F is more complicated. When a mixture of ice, water, and ammonium chloride freeze. When water freeze and when boiling is understandable and rather useful. - Volume: Liters. I understand Gallon but do not like to use it. Can be US or Imperial Gallon (3,79L or 4,54L) Isn't there liquid and weight lbs also? BUT I really like the US style using (volume per distance) mpg. To know when to fuel up make sense. The EU style of using L/10Km is stupid. One have to recalculate. I would assume it originates from money perceived as more expensive then time. As the the English man said: Inch by Inc we are getting closer to the metric system. =0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 7, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted August 7, 2014 I bring this thread back because when you guys post in Metric lots of readers have no idea what the F you you talking about. I do not care if it is the IWWF standard or not. I care what most readers understand. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 7, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted August 7, 2014 Oooo yea that means you @MattP Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted August 7, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 7, 2014 .001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted August 7, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 7, 2014 @Horton leave me out of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 7, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted August 7, 2014 @MattP will then stop with meters or post both for us old guys. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller pgmoore Posted August 7, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 7, 2014 I can't think of a single situation in which the imperial system is superior to metric. Oddly, the list of countries that don't use the metric system include: Liberia, Myanmar... and the United States. It defies logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 7, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted August 7, 2014 @pgmoore in the end most of the readers of this site are in the US and most of us think in feet off. It is a silly system but it is more silly that when @MattP posts in meters I have to go to the USAWS site to find the conversion table. It is the language we speak. Antiquated? Maybe, but it is what we know. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Zman Posted August 7, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 7, 2014 I think we need more picture proof that feet and inches is better. I like colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buski Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Looks like there are two types of countries. Those that use the metric system and those that have put a man on the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Spuddy Posted August 7, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 7, 2014 I am Canadian so my everyday life I think in metres but when I am in the boat it's always feet off and mph unless I happen to go to a tournament where I have to make sure to say "please start at 16 m at 55 K" aka 22 off at 34 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted August 7, 2014 Supporting Member Share Posted August 7, 2014 @Horton I completely disagree. And it's not because I believe metric is far superior (which is obvious), even though I am sadly more accustomed to "feet off." It's directly on your point: This site is now the de facto greatest water ski site on planet earth (Congratulations on that!). The fact that it is beginning to have an international feel is both unavoidable and awesome. Yeah, somebody may have to scratch their head and ask "WTF is 10.25?" But at the same time they'll be getting to be part of a much larger international community. This ultimately makes this site much cooler. And really, if you've heard of 38 off but never paid any attention to any tournament scores, do you have any sense of what it really means? It's just some random number. When I tell my office mates about 38 off, all I get is "off of what?" And when I say 11.25m, I get no questions but it still tells them absolutely nothing. I contend that most people who truly understand what 38 off is also are aware that it's 11.25m. And if not, they WILL soon from hanging out right here in this international community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted August 7, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 7, 2014 @horton , baby seals do not taste good, but they do make great boots!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller teammalibu Posted August 7, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 7, 2014 Bought a complete set of metric measuring tools back in the early 80s to get ready for the change they are still in the box waiting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller chris_logan Posted August 7, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 7, 2014 I just don't think I would understand how to buy a sports car based on acceleration from 0-96.56 kph. Why does Europe have 0-62 mph times? I'm still baffled by the fact that the tires for my Harley are metric, but fit rims measured in inches. Can't we just have feet and inches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted August 7, 2014 Supporting Member Share Posted August 7, 2014 @buski I was unaware of Liberia and Myanmar's success in space exploration. However, the former dictator of Myanmar was named Than, so I guess it's not surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihard Posted August 8, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 8, 2014 I use feet off because I moved to "MERICA" and that's what everyone at our lakes uses. I would hate to confuse the locals! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gsm_peter Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 FWIW The sport is defined in meters and Km/h. mph and feet or feet off is just rounded values. 1 KM = 1.60934 mile 1 feet = 0.3048 meter The speed control systems hide the delta and adjust to proper speed (according to my knowledge) When hand drive one should use the Real mph column to get defined speed. Km/h mph Real mph 40 24 24,85 43 26 26,72 46 28 28,58 49 30 30,45 52 32 32,31 55 34 34,18 58 36 36,04 One can note that a hand driven run in mph is slower than same speed in km/h Rope manufacturers hide the delta and adjust to proper line lengths (according to my knowledge). Anyone that creates/modify ropes or use unknown ropes have the real lengths below Loop Color Meters Feet Feet Off Real length Feet Real Feet Off Neutral 23,00 75,00 0,00 75,46 -0,46 Red 18,25 60,00 15,00 59,88 15,12 Orange 16,00 53,00 22,00 52,49 22,51 Yellow 14,25 47,00 28,00 46,75 28,25 Green 13,00 43,00 32,00 42,65 32,35 Blue 12,00 40,00 35,00 39,37 35,63 Violet 11,25 37,00 38,00 36,91 38,09 Neutral 10,75 35,50 39,50 35,27 39,73 Red 10,25 34,00 41,00 33,63 41,37 One can note that a hand made rope in feet can be both shorter and longer than the same rope in meters pending on if one measure the real length or the take off section. I can understand and adopt to both systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted August 11, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted August 11, 2014 Going for the panda here.... I am feet off in my brain but as Than says, it makes little to no sense to Jo public....the very folks we are so desperate to want to love and grow the sport. Been to lots of US pro events specifically put in the most public venues only to watch the Jo public crowd scratch their heads in bewilderment as this "line off" is being announced. Even with the event happening right in front of them with me explaining what it means, I still get "...why not just say how long the rope is??? " I have no answer for that. To any logical human, it just sounds stupid. Kinda makes the sport appear stupid in a way. At the Malibu Open this year, even the Professional announcers could not do the math to help out spectators. I was laughing hearing one of them say ".....well, not gonna do the math on that but the rope doesn't reach the ball". Really?!?!? Saw the 35+ Association thread (great idea BTW) and its mission to promote the sport in creative ways. They/we can start by not promoting it in the most confusing way possible. Some say..."well Jo public should learn the terminology" Really?!?! We want Jo public to learn what a 3rd grader will tell you is a weird way to explain how long a rope is?? I'd rather see a crowd of new to the sport spectators learn a real measuring system (metric) then something as backwards as "line off". But ultimately it should be announced in "feet on" with old school terminology slipped in here and there as a historical reference. Awaiting my panda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller pgmoore Posted August 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 27, 2014 I came across this Twitter post tonight and it made be think of this thread: https://twitter.com/SciencePorn/status/504377521069367296 Much to my chagrin, the picture really does make a compelling argument for the imperial system :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Rpc29 Posted August 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 27, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted August 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 27, 2014 I voted Meters, simply because if you state the line length you are skiing on, it's easier for none water skiers to understand, typically the guy is now skiing on a 10.75 meter line and it is 11,5 meters from the center of the boat lane to the bouy, it helps them understand how amazing some of these skiers are. If you use so many feet off, you have to know how many feet you started with and colours, you either have to be an official or participate in the sport. Why don't we keep it Simples ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edbrazil Posted August 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 27, 2014 As a Technical Controller, I deal with metric a lot, since all the specifications for the sport are in metric. Since about 1974, the SL course has been metric-dimensioned, for example. Of course, the one glaring exception is jumping distances. 200 feet sounds a lot better than 60.9 meters. Even if you're a Euro-nation skier. But, driving in Europe, 100kph sounds faster than a little over 60 mph. On the other hand, it's a lot easier to use the metric side of a measuring tape and check a lineoff loop for 12.00 meters, vs. 39 feet 4 7/16 inches. When I'm doing ski course setting/adjusting, I set the target distances on my Total Station survey instrument in metric, but then when I'm relaying adjustment to a water worker, I convert to feet & inches. Lots of experience doing that. On rare occasions, I have had a water worker from a metric country, such as New Zealand, and can tell them directly in meters. Back when, I believe that the "foot" was taken from the size of a man's foot, perhaps an English king in the back-when. While the meter was something like one ten millionth part of the distance from equator to pole. Until around 1960 defined by wavelengths of light, and later on, in 1983, related to the speed of light. Note that the inch is now defined as exactly 2.54cm. Making the foot 30.48cm, exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted August 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 28, 2014 I still think in feet, and feet off. I do all rope measurements in metric. It's much easier that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JWebSki Posted August 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 28, 2014 They should add an option for what do you want to think of the rope as. I am only around people who speak in feet so that is all i know. But I wish i spoke in meters it is so much easier and the increments of shortenings make much more sense and that is how the rope is actually measured. The feet is just a conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 30, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted August 30, 2014 The poll is really about rope length Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 12, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted October 12, 2014 watching the Sr Worlds webcast and have no idea what is going on because I am too old to learn metric Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Luzz Posted October 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2014 What's crazy is that I think meters when speaking italian and feet off when speaking english... Ski coach at Jolly Ski, Organizer of the San Gervasio Pro Am (2023 Promo and others), Co-Organizer of the Jolly Clinics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 13, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted October 13, 2014 @luzz when you drink beer do yo think in ounces or milliliters? :-) Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller nzwaterski Posted October 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2014 Living in new Zealand we are taught metric. But my ski is still a 67". And I ski at 34mph. But everything else is metric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJVDMZN Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The main reason the Americans got to the moon is that the moon was less than 300,000 miles (238,857) and more than 300,000 km (384,403) so in Km's it sounded a lot futher :D Sometimes the Imp. system works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller matthew Posted October 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2014 I prefer feet off and mph. Commenced tournaments this year, we had to conform and change over to metric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edbrazil Posted October 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2014 Note for @horton: Horton lake in 1974 had what was maybe the earliest metric SL course in the US. Another distinction, along with being the first man-made private lake about 1968. I was there in February, 1974, doing ski tests for Western Wood. Jack Horton (yes, Dr. Jack, the original) had a survey transit that wasn't a total station, but could turn 90 degree angles. Think I had a metric steel tape then. Set up a line of shore points to turn off. Jack himself did the water work. Main point is that when the metric course came in, it was significantly shorter than the foot- dimensioned course. (259m vs. 855 ft) So, as we went along, the difference became more and more apparent. Neat memory from the Old Days. Noted previously: as a Technical Controller, you need to deal with metric all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Luzz Posted October 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2014 @Horton when it comes to beer, I think pints Ski coach at Jolly Ski, Organizer of the San Gervasio Pro Am (2023 Promo and others), Co-Organizer of the Jolly Clinics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edbrazil Posted October 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2014 Couple of notes about the first posting: Yup: 1 foot = .3048 meter, exact. As there are 2.54cm per inch exact. Flip that around: 1 mile is 1.609344 kilometers, exact. 5280 * .3048 = 1.609344. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gsm_peter Posted October 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2014 @Horton Why not post this picture on the front forum page for a while? Will maybe make life easier for converting rope length Colors, Metric, Feet off (I 'borrowed this picture' from skimarin.se catalog) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller klindy Posted October 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2014 I guess I think in both feet off and meters. I've measured hundreds of ropes and I couldn't do it using imperial dimensions if I had too. But in casual conversation "feet off" is as natural as it gets. Work a few international tournaments and calling in scores and confirming line lengths are always metric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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