Weed chemicals for a ski lake

[sgilbert]

I was just reading the "Building a ski lake" posting. Depth and weed issues were addressed in several comments, but little was said about weed control. I would be interested in knowing what chemicals you use in your lake---to control weeds. I have lived on a 23 acres man-made ski lake in Indiana for the last 14 years, and coordinate most of the maintenance for our lake association. The bottom consists of silt and clay, and the average depth of the lake is between 8' and 9' (down the middle), with the predominate weed issues being in water 6' or less--although there are a couple of small pockets of weeds in the deeper areas. There are dozens of chemicals on the market (all very expensive), and all "claim" to kill weeds. However, I have yet to find a reasonably priced "silver-bullet"---and, most treatments cost double if you hire a firm to do it. I might add that dye costs about $550/application, and a quick 3-4" rain flushes much of it right down the drain pipe. There are a number of homes on our lake (and all irrigate from the lake). Thus, we aren't able to use any chemicals that will kill landscaping. I realize that this is a "ski" forum, and this subject may not be appropriate, but I would guess that controlling weeds gets in the way of "doing sets" for many of us.

[BraceMaker]

Carpialoxin

[Brady]

@sgilbert I have been looking at this issue as well, and one thing that may potentially help is to put weed eating carp in your lake. I don't know if this would be feasible, and Lord knows I hate them, because of how they have infestated our lake, but I do know they will eat all the weeds.

[A_B]

What kind of dye are you using?

 

[RichardDoane]

the grass eating carp allowed in WA state are all sterilized, I believe they come from somewhere in Arkansas for about $15. each, they do a great job of keeping the Broho weeds at bay, no chemicals required

[A_B]

Sterile White Amurs here in Ohio. Fin Farm in Napoleon, serves western Indiana.

We put in 24 or so, and dye the water. They get very big!

 

http://www.finfarm.com/fish.php

 

[kurt]

any other thing besides the carp ? I checked with our DNR in Michigan and we can not get them in any form. This will be my 3rd year for the lake and last year the weeds started coming in on the shoreline. I used copper sulphate for the algea ,but what works best & cheaply for the rest?

[The_MS]

Karmex if you want it all gone. Reward or Aquathol if you want to take it out for the year. Talk to Indiana skier Brian Dawson, he will get you some info on Karmex (Diuron).

[thager]

@ms Well, now I know where this growth on my right shoulder came from!

[Brady]

@kurt CARPedium. Seize the day and throw them in and then deny deny deny. I also highly doubt the Michigan DNR is going to come fishing at your lake anytime soon.

 

@MS with all those "natural" chemicals in your lake, I am curious if your lake has healing abilities now? Maybe we could have a revival there!

[The_MS]

@Brady We use the minimum amounts possible. We have very good water quality with lots of fish. We do get some runoff from a few crop fields around us and that can give us an algae problem if we dont stay on top of things. Copper is not good for your lake over time. The cleated form like Cutrine Plus is a little better but it sucks dealing with it. The DNR will come in and make you drain your lake and fine you for each carp they find so I would not go that route if you are not able by law.

You need to have some weeds in the lake if you want to have good water quality.

[skier2788]

I used to work for an aquatics weed business. We treated irrigation ditches mostly. Reward works well. There are two others I would recommend one is called nautique its a copper based weed killer and the other is cascade. Nautique would work best in a lake dependant on size. In a moving ditch I could kill for a mile with it but that was it. It would also give a slight blue dye for awhile.

[BraceMaker]

I have seen this unit used in WI.

 

http://weedcutter.com/hc10h.html

 

Pretty slick - its like an antique tractor sickle mower, that you hang off a small jon boat. You go along where the weeds are a problem and chop chop chop.

 

Cuts down to 5 feet, runs in shallow depth. So you can go along, clean up wherever the weeds get too long in the shallows. Then when they wash up you can do some grooming.

[A_B]

@kurt, the DNR rules on carp are setup to protect them from eating the habitat for sport fishing.

I doubt they would mess with a private lake owner. The over run of weeds could choke out a lake, so ask them how to protect against that. It is time some of their archaic laws get challenged in court and repealed!! I'll be the first to throw some tea crates in the lake (no comment if they have Amurs in them or not).

[igkya]

For those that have used carp, about how long did it take to eliminate the weed problem?

[A_B]

I had algae, not weeds, and the fish along with blue dye have knocked out 95%, at least. Didn't see any algae last year. 5 years ago, our entire north shore 2k feet was thick with it, going out a few feet from shoreline. Sporadic all around the rest of lake.

 

Our water was the clearest I have ever seen in 30 years of ownership.

[Marco]

We had a huge weed problem the 2nd year after we built our lake. We treated the 9 acre lake with Natique, then dyed it and added sterile grass carp. Worked like a charm. We negleted to add a few carp each year, and last summer the weeds started to return, because large, mature carp eat less and less as they age. We added another 30, and we are weed free again. Bummer that every state cannot use sterile carp.

[A_B]

We have caught perch in our lake, not for several years, though, so odd fish (wink wink), do find their way into private lakes.

[DW]

I have been involved with the weed control program on our lake for several years and we have an engineering firm "manage" our program (since it is dam controlled and more than just a private ski lake). The comments above are all excellent, Karmex is not "allowed" by the DNR but is very effective, so we use Reward and Copper Sulphate along with some others. The dye and fish route also works well.

 

What we have realized over the last few years and supported by a U of Wisconsin study is that the Midwestern weed species have undergone a transformation over the last few years with new more aggravating invasive species pushing out the previous (read easier to treat) species. The weeds also develop a resistance to chemical treating over time, so the program needs a tune up every so often.

[EricKelley]

First find out what weeds you have a problem with. My lake was unusable last late summer due to a downstream farmer popping the valve on the dam and subsequent takeover of Coontail. No telling how many tons of this stuff grew. Fluoridone(Sonar, White Cap, Reward) Seems to be the answer, but very pricey. Cheapest is about 1500/gallon up to 2400/gallon for Sonar. The vendors calculated that I would need 2.6 gallons for my lake. It seems to have worked for several other skiers very well and has no epa problems except not to be used for irrigation for 30 days. 4000 dollars expensive.......but after last year a no brainer. Might throw in some carp for maintainance detail.

[kurt]

@AB I am sure I could probably get away with it ,but is it worth the risk is what I have to decide. As dry as it has been by us I can't take the risk of having to empty out the lake. I think I might try the chemical route this year along with the dye that I put in about half way through last year and see what happens. Or next year some blue herons may have dropped something from indiana in on there way north next spring

[Stevie Boy]

For what it,s worth, on the Algae front, we submerge straw bales around the edges of our lake every year.

No Algae problem since.

Also to help with silt problems we spread SILTEX (crushed chalk) over the lake, this year, it's supposed to regenerate the silt so it gets active again and lifts from the bottom of the lake and moves on out, something like that anyways, we are waiting to see if it works.

[BraceMaker]

What's the straw do?

[RichardDoane]

@igkya - by the third season we were weed free thanks to the hungry fish

[aswinter05]

Let a 2013 XSTAR take a couple passes down the lake at 15 mph with 5000lbs balasts filled to the top. Betcha all that algae will be washed ashore in no time.

[The_MS]

It needs to be Barley Straw.

[BraceMaker]

@MS - Neat - http://www.btny.purdue.edu/pubs/apm/apm-1-w.pdf

 

[The_MS]

We have a guy with some trout ponds that uses it and swears by it.

[sgilbert]

I provided this original post. Thanks everyone for your great comments/advice. After seeing your comments, and reviewing the regimen I've been using the last few years, I have concluded to do the following; again I live on a man-made 23 acre lake that's abou 8.5' deep ave. in the middle):

1. Copper sulfate treatments periodically are a given. Surprisingly, I have only had to use about four or five 50' bag/yr. if I mix it right. I'm probably going to move to Cutrine Plus in the future because it's in a liquid form (not powder like copper sulfate); easier to mix with water.

2. Someone commented about sterile grass carp (Amur). I put 100 GC in in 2007, 50 in 2008, 25 in 2009, and 51 in 2012. Grass carp lose their "consumptive" capacity over time, which accounts for the need to put in maintenance replacements each year. In hindsight, I should have put in 20-25/yr after 2009. Thus, with the addition of 50 in 2012 I'm playing a bit of catch-up. My gameplan is to put about 25 each year from now on.

3. The predominate weeds in our lake is Sago and Thin Leaf Pondweed (aka Small Pond Weed). Like most lakes, there are others, but these are the main ones. During the last two years, I have applied 22.5 gallons of Aquathol Super K (with a bit of Cutrine Plus) when the water temp gets consistently over 65 degrees. In the future, I have determined that I should go with a second application (at least on the side of the lake where the homes are---and certain spot treatments) about 6 weeks after the first application. I'm guessing that this second application will take 12-13 gallons of Aquathol Super K (with a complement of Cutrine Plus).

4. Although the lake is fed by a watershed that's about twice the size of the lake (and we lose a lot of dye with a heavy 3-4 inch rain), I think (based on your comments), I need to keep it up. Thus, my gameplan is to put in 24 quarts early April (the heavy concentrate type from Sanco), then follow with 12 quarts or so every 6 weeks or so until mid August (or use one of those tests where if you can't see a shiny thing over 2' down you're okay).

 

I guess I'm writing all of this to give you a feel for what I'm thinking about doing this year. Basically, it's comparable to what I have been doing the last couple years, but more intensive (and unfortunately more money). Please feel free to provide me your feedback (i.e. the more critical the better). Like most of you, I'm just trying to tweak things to gain a balance between results and economics. Again, there are 7 homes on the lake, and we all irrigate from it. Thus, we need to scrutinize whatever we put on. Thanks!

 

 

[The_MS]

If you irrigate from the lake, do not use Karmex (diuron) or Sonar/whitecap.

[Marco]

@sgilbert - If the lake is heavily infested with weeds, you should only treat half the lake at a time. The decaying process of the dead weeds robs the lake of oxygen and can kill the fish if too much decompositions occurs at the same time.

 

FWIW, we also had Sago pondgrass, and used Natique with great success (be careful if you have sensitive fish species like trout). We purchased it from Monterey Chemicals in central California (Now Monterey Ag Recources, I believe) We talked to Glenn Toshima there, who was very informative since he is also a tournament skier and is familiar with issues relating to tournament lakes. You might contact him to get his recommendations. His contact info is under the Contact Us tab, then click distribution area and scroll down.

 

http://www.montereyagresources.com/products-labels/55/aquatic/

 

 

[Wish]

BUMP-- Help!! We have (in Florida) a strange case of Spatterdock (lilly pads) Currently we have the normal football sized versions along the shore in about 4' of water..that's fine and great for fishing. But in the last 2 seasons we have had a variation or highbred appear in 10-14' of water. It has been identified by the State of Fl as Spatterdock and not any invasive type lilly. The leaf at the surface is smaller but has the same shape. This is a natural lake (dye is not an option) and we have acquired a permits from the state to deal with this. However, after having a lake management company assess the problem for possible treatment, the permit needs to be amended to include other possible chemicals other then liquids (Rodio). Any thoughts on possible solutions? Any success with certain chemicals for lilly pads. Consensus is these are immature and have not yet established the thick root web...yet.