Triple Team Torque Test/Review

[Wish]

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@OB, @Wish and @Razorskier1 met in Orlando at the Mapple Training Center to ride the new Mapple Torque September 17th and 18th. Conditions could not be better between the two days. Overcast and mid 80’s the first day with water temp in the mid 80’s as well with light winds. Bright sun day 2 and no wind. Beautiful new 200 6.0L at the ready. They were met buy Team Mapple including Andy himself, his son Mike, Katie and Aiden our main driver.

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The Testers:

 

@OB Riding a 65.25” N1 with PowerShell 5’s. LFF. Georgia boy. Tournament PB is 2@39.5’, but for the last 12 months skiing 3-4@38’ in practice and in tournaments. Last year’s tournament average 99.75. 6 feet and 185 pounds on a good day. Skis behind a variety of ZO boats, but mainly the Nautique 200.

 

@Razorskier1 Riding a Mapple 6.0 (68.5 inch) with Strada front and rear toe kick. RFF. Minnesota man. He has racked up a total of 56 complete 38 off passes this season alone (but in practice so they don’t count). Tournament PB 2@39. Skis behind a New 2014 MC. 6 feet and 185 pounds.

 

@Wish Current stick 66 HO S2 with the following; front ventral, SFE on offside turn only and hard shells (stupid stiff) boots. RFF. Florida son (sun). Tournament average 101.33 with a high score of 1.5 @39. Skis behind a ’97 SN 196 with PP Classic 95% of the time. 5 feet 10 inches and 173 pounds.

 

They are very similar skiers in scoring stats but very different in geo location, skis, boots and skiing style.

 

[Wish]

Test Day 1.

 

Basically each rode their skis for a set with Andy watching to assess what he felt would be a better match for style of skiing between the T1 and the T2.

@OB, @Wish, and @Razorskier1 all ran straight up the lines to 38 off. 3@38, 4@38 and 5@38 respectively. Pretty sure they all had that….. I’m gonna run 38 in front of Andy Mapple syndrome….splash. That would have been a bucket list check. All three allowed Andy to choose the stick for each skier. @OB’s and @Razorskier1’s boots were mounted on the T2 while @Wish’s boots were put on the T1 (photo of a T2 from day 2.).

 

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At this point, the skiers speak for themselves and each review was written independent of the other.

 

@OB: Day 1

 

The T2 is slightly wider then my N1 and was roughly ½” longer. I think it resembled the width of the Goode Mid Ride being slightly wider than my N1. First Impression on the water was that the T2 had a much longer glide, way longer than my N1. I overshot my gate turn in mark on my first two passes, but still ran the passes. I had to adjust my pullout point to about ½ a boat length earlier due to the better glide. The ski was also quicker buoy to buoy and I tended to overturn my onside 1-3-5. The ski didn’t finish as well as I would have liked on my offside 2-4 at stock settings. Andy added some tip mid set and the ski felt more symmetrical the rest of the first set running multiple 32’s.

 

I went out the second set and after backing up multiple 32’s ran a very easy 35’ and then ended up getting around 3@38 to get a feel for it at my hardest line length.

 

[Wish]

@Razorskier1: Day 1

 

The first set on the T2 was amazing in several respects. First, the ski glides and carries speed extremely well. Second, it is by far the “quietest” ski I have ever ridden. It seemed glued to the water, and impossible to disrupt. Three, the ski turned almost automatically for me, and grabbed and held angle with little effort. Like my 6.0, it is also capable of creating a ridiculous amount of space before the ball, and with additional input, it creates more and more.

On my first set I skied 28s, 32s, and 35s pretty effortlessly. Andy was coaching and adjusting the ski. I think we made 3 different fin adjustments during the set to get it just right on the onside. Offside was magic from the start. After that we shot some 38s but I only got to 3 and 5. Andy was doing quite a bit of coaching, and some of the changes, while absolutely on the mark, I didn’t quite apply correctly. At some level it is a bit difficult to both test a ski and change fundamentals, but we only had so much time!

Second set we tried “a drill”. Andy felt I was giving up my edge too soon (I was, he showed me the video). So he told me to quit getting wide on my gate. He wanted me to start narrow so that I would have to hold my edge longer. From literally 5 feet off the whitewash I shot gates at 28, 32, 35 and, yes, I ran 38. Seriously, from 5 feet off the whitewash, and it was easy!

 

[Wish]

@Wish: Day 1

First pass run at 28. It is a much different ski then the S2 by a long shot. Had little to no trouble running it but Andy did do a fin tweak before my next pass. 28 again. Vast improvement so much so that staying at 28 was not an option. 32 just as easy. 35s also easy. So 38 was going to happen. After rounding ball 3 earlier than on my ski and coming into 4 ball visually confused at the distance the thing was out in font of me, I simply fumble the ball so to speak. That was more runnable then my S2 pass and that was going well. Andy asked why I didn’t finish the pass. I had no answer. We both kinda just laughed at it. The boys on the dock were bewildered as well.

 

What I noticed first and foremost was matching my score on the first ride with ease. That in itself is big. I’ve tested LOTs of high-end skis and there is no bad one. But it took at least a week to adjust to the ski and/or adjust the ski to take them deep 38 and a few through it. This was just ONE set after one very small tweak I’m running 38. That says a lot.

 

The “torque/twist” feel that stood out initially was wake crossings. Given there were 3 guys in the boat and one of them was 6’9” Mike Mapple, plus sand bag weights, there was a bump at 28…with my ski. I had to remind myself that nothing changed boat wise when I was on the T1. Wasn’t until I finished the 28s that I realized…no bump. The ski sucked them up. The other thing I noticed was the engagement of the ski from apex right on through casting out off second wake. The ski just stays engaged as if more of the ski is in the water at all times. This was my thought but I asked @Razorskier1 what he thought being he rides a 6.0 and he basically said the same thing.

 

I have a SFE on one side of my ski to force symmetrical turns and for the most part they are….or so I thought. Did not put this on the T1. Did not need it either. Crazy symmetrical. I have not seen 2,4,6 that far out in front of me coming off my off side…ever. Visually bazaar.

 

Physically effortless is how I describe the S2. The steps and inherent high riding attitude make it that way. So everything I ride feels, for lack of a better term, ...slow. I expected the same. I was wrong. The ski has speed and is effortless from ball to ball. At least as much as my S2. But unlike the S2, this ski “feels like” it slows down predictably or deals with the speed so well it just feels slower in the turn.

 

Off the ball the ski keeps every bit of angle you’ve generated in the turn and after Andy said to give it more or get more angle after hook up, it was even better. Not something I have experienced before and certainly not something I would intentionally attempt with a ZO boat.

 

Off the second wake into the ball, the ski settles in nice and quiet. If left alone, the ski is on autopilot from the release to the hook up. Both sides. If pushed it responds with an abrupt but manageable turn. I think the “twisting” manages over turning in some way by absorbing what would be, on my ski, to much angle to hold. I also think it compensates for my extreme ridged boots by dampening the input to the ski.

 

Early and wide was easy to achieve. Especially the early part. The buzz word of the month seems to be “space” before the ball. I have not rapped my head around the definition or interpretations of “space”. I’m still of the wide and early thought. But if seeing the ball yards out in front of you coming off an offside wake crossing only to end up wider than the buoy line is “space” then yes, it creates space. Lots and lots of space.

 

I really cannot find a flaw other than the “trust” flaw. But that’s more me. Andy mentioned several times to trust that the ski will get under me. When I did trust it, it was under me, and further between me and the boat. Fiddling around on the ski in the turn made it operate less efficiently. Calm is rewarded.

 

[Wish]

@OB: Day 2

I was first off the dock at 8:30am in perfect glass and missed my opener due to the psychedelic cloud formations reflecting off the water! Trippy, but still fun! Ran my 28’ back to the dock and then multiple 32’s getting comfortable with the ski again. The ski seemed to revert back to Day 1 and I felt like it wasn’t coming around as much as I would like it to out of my offside 2-4 (probably more sore body then ski). I tried 35’ twice and I didn’t like the way the ski (or my body position) was finishing on my offside and just stood up 2 ball on both passes.

Andy made some fin adjustments during my second set which consisted of one 28’ and multiple 32’s. Little less DFT, less depth, more tip and a technique tip to initiate my turn with a little more sense of urgency. I finished the set feeling confident that the ski was setup to exactly where I need it until I gain a little more confidence riding it. Every 32’ kept getting better and better with more space each pass. My last 2 passes, even though I was exhausted, we’re my best of the demo with a lot of space before the buoy, standing taller into my 2-4 offside, and a symmetrical turn on both sides of the course.

 

Overall, I was very impressed with the one on one service and attention to detail in regards to each of our individual ski style and personal setup. The T2 is quick ski, and it turns GREAT, way better than I expected! For me and my style, I liked the way it casted out and kept its speed from edge change to apex…it definitely created more space before the buoy than I am used to, which in the long run I think will lead to better skiing for me.

 

@Razorskier1: Day 2

 

Next morning we went back out for two sets. Andy told me he wanted to stay at 32 and “work on me” now that the ski was working. We worked on building more speed and, as we did that, started widening the gate again. After backing up my pullout point to nearly 20 feet before the boat hit the greens, I was finding a groove for the gate and started getting aggressive behind the boat. That was when the real fun began!!! We ran 32 after 32 after 32 and I just kept skiing faster and faster and faster. The result was very unexpected. While I felt extremely fast behind the boat, I was creating 30 feet of space ahead of the ball while carrying outbound speed. The ski felt totally stable and balanced, and I was just ripping through the turns with no stall or moment of load. Interestingly, @Wish commented that all of those passes looked incredible. I believe he said, “you were wide of the ball, extremely early, perfectly symmetrical, and it looked like slow motion”. Oddly, that was sort of how it felt too, but not because I lacked speed, but because I was creating so much space that I had time to consider every aspect of my skiing. As with @Wish, I would say the ski is so calm and settles in so well in the pre-turn that it inspires confidence. In short, the combination of a terrific ski, perfect ski setup, and a willingness to throw caution to the wind and go as fast as I possibly could through the wakes was AWESOME! I have no doubt that the T2 will take me further than I’ve ever been with far greater consistency. This ski feels different than anything I’ve ever ridden – in a very good way.

 

 

[Wish]

@Wish: Day 2

 

The day before, I asked if I could have a go at the T2….the non recommended one. Was set up on the T2. When asked the difference, Andy mentioned a few things but what stood out for me was it being wider under foot…like mine. My first thought was…why did he pick the T1 if the T2 has a design aspect of width like mine? Thought for sure I would like this ski even more. Not so much. But, to Andy’s credit, he said they ARE different skis accommodating different skiing styles.

 

Similar to the T1, the T2 was still a fast, effortless ski from side to side, quiet, symmetrical, and very stable IF skied the way it was designed. I was very pleased at 28 and 32 and went straight to 35. Was sure I’d shorten to 38 after just one 35 pass. But at 35, everything got very narrow especially visually. I told Andy that at the end of the lake. He said, yep, that’s the difference. He went on to explain that it’s a turner’s ski. Guys that like to make up time in the turn or move the ski through the turn verses just riding it. It takes a straighter path into the ball and in a way, expects you to do something turn wise well before the ball. I’ve spent the last decade trying get away from that, which was noticed and why he picked the T1 for me. His suggestion for the T2 was to “start things in my turn before the ball and trust that the ski will be under me at the finish”. So what felt like way to soon, frantic and rushed, I initiated the turn earlier and bam, around she came and off to the next ball …repeat. 35s became much easier and if I had any more gas in the tank I would have cut to 38. This is not a ski to wait on. But, that’s just not me. It is, however, a ski for @OB and @Razorskier1. Both of them made that ski look very easy once dialed in. They are tuners and admittedly so.

 

Really a couple of great days. On behalf of the test team, thank you Andy and the team at the Mapple Training Center @Mapple @mike_mapple‌ . Great hosts to say the least. In the end, @OB and @Razorskier1 left with T2s. While the T1 is the ski for @Wish, he is finishing out his season on the S2 and making a decision before the water temps change too much. He lives in FL so that’s a ways off.

 

The take away by the test team was that, ….paraphrasing here, “……the crazy box cut out thing under the boots with all this twisting going on…. simply put, …they work.”

 

[SkiJay]

Great reviews guys! Thanks for taking the time to describe the whole process so thoroughly.

[bogboy]

Fantastic detailed review guys.

[Booze]

Good stuff. I missed you guys by a week. I was there the 9th and 10th...and left with a T2.

[PatRe]

@Wish‌ @OB‌ and @Razorskier1‌ Excellent review! Your vivid descriptions made me feel like I was there on the dock, then in the boat and - dare I say - taking a few passes. I moved my visit to the Mapple Training Center from my wish list to my bucket list. Thanks so much for sharing.

[kstateskier]

Its really too bad you guys aren't better skiers, this review would be legit... :p

 

(in all damn seriousness thanks for doing this! I'm working in Orl all winter and getting to Andy's to ride the new Mapple's is on my list, even though I just dropped major coin on a Helix this season)

[disland]

I would love a recap in 3-4 weeks to see how things are after the honeymoon period

[gator1]

Very cool process. And, a bit more statistically valid with three different types of skiers. Of course, the GOAT was tweaking fins and technique so that introduced some statistical invalidity.

 

I'd say thanks for all the work, but I just skied 48 degree water, so I'm having a hard time with anything but digging my gonads out of my abdomen. "water in the 80's" bah.

[Wish]

@gator1, Not a statistician but will say that Andy did very little tweaking for me. Once with the T1 and it was slight at best and not at all with the T2. Coaching was only given for the T2 with some specifics. This was do to the ski not fitting my style and little else. He had to coach my style right outa me. The T1 coaching consisted of generalities like "trust" and "go for it". Specific coaching was not needed as I rode it better then the S2 in several respects. But do feel the validity is ramped up a bit with 3 guys and the way we did this.

[Razorskier1]

I skied mine at home in MN and did a bunch of 32s to adjust to the water temp difference. After three sets of that went straight thru 2 at 39.

[Wish]

If I am not mistaken, @Razorskier1‌ did his MN sets wearing something called a drysweater or suit or something sounding cumbersome and awkward.

[gator1]

Think how good @Razorskier1‌ would be if he got to ski bareback all year like you boys. "drysweater" Bah! New name: manbag

 

I really like the Mapple process. I've been skiing 45 years, figure I'm a decent engineer, and yet I have no clue on what to do with fin adjustment and binding moves. I always figure get it set precisely to factory spec, then any adjustment comes out of my technique, since of the two- bindings and fins vs my technique- its pretty clear which is farther from optimal.

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So I was derating the review a bit due to the GOAT tuning and coaching.

 

BUT:

 

WTH. If Andy is willing to include that when you buy a ski, then it should be part of the product which is being reviewed, and the result is how many buoys more you and others get and who gives a shit whether it was 90% new ski and 10% GOAT input or 99/1 or whatever.

[Steven_Haines]

Good job guys! I'm envious to say the least!

[Texas6]

That looks like it was a lot of fun - I really loved skiing with the GOAT, and would like to try his ski - thanks for taking the time to put this together for those of us at our desks!

 

[mike_mapple]

Thanks guys for coming down!

[GOODESkier]

If you have skills like @OB then the proof is in the pudding. SET UP IS A HUGE DEAL! Setting a ski to stock and trying to manipulate it is OK, but if you have the skills to tweak or have a friend or manufacturer willing to tweak for you, that is where the few extra buoys come from in my opinion............

[Razorskier1]

Andy's knowledge of tuning is unbelievable. I would like the ski without it, love it with it!

[ozski]

Great reviews gentlemen , the water looks tooooo smooth.. Its going to be interesting to see how this new ski design goes over the next couple of years. Everything you read and hear about it is positive so far.

[DanE]

@ozski‌ When the next couple of years have passed, new skis will hit the market.

[bkreis]

I'm riding a T1 and have a new practice PB after 4 weeks on it. The space created simply is insane. Creates a visual pic I've never seen before. I love skiing so I'm always happy, but now I'm grinning ear to ear every set even if I stay @ 14m.

[mwetskier]

@DanE -if andy moves forward and has a full patent granted i suspect he will be riding it for more than just the next couple of years

[Wish]

These were taken from video. I wanted to add another direct comparison. Will let you decide which is better and why. But it's obvious. Both are off side. What surprised me was the fact that the S2 pic was a 32 off pass and the T1 was 35 and the T1 shot was right after a not so good turn. Regretting not taking one home now.

 

[JohnCox]

I can't figure out why you left without one, @Wish...

[Wish]

@ JohnCox $$$$$

[JohnCox]

I get that...but....

 

Hard to believe the difference just in the images above.

[Wish]

I should sell the pics to Andy for promotional purposes for the price of a ski... oh wait those are his...crap.

[SkiJay]

That really IS a sweet looking off-side cut @Wish‌

[Not_The_Pug]

@Wish you really need to stop posting this great stuff about the Mapple. I am fighting the urge to send Andy a video and ask what ski he should ship.

 

I tend to over load a ski off the ball, so thinking this might be the ski for me. Wife said we may need to plan a vacation to Orlando in the spring to ski with Andy and test skis. :)

 

Thanks for the great info.

[Wish]

@Krlee‌ just let Andy know I sent you. If I get enough Ballers saying it was my post that sent them his way, he may take mercy on my very thin wallet for what is inevitable.

[DanE]

@Wish @Razorskier1‌ I find all this "a turners ski" and "a pullers ski" quite confusing. If you ski the T2 (the turners ski) does that mean it's easier to accelerate? (since you already are a turner) or is it the other way around? For you guys who have tried them both, wich one is easiest to turn, and wich is easiest to accelerate?

@Krlee Your wife is basically planning for you to buy a Mapple ski?

[Not_The_Pug]

@DanE I have a different problem than most the guys on BOS. My wife likes to ski and if I'm going to get something new, she is too. So it always cost me double of what ever I want. She skis on an Obrien Endo currently, so she is thinking the Mapple would be great for her. So I'm leery of going to Orlando, because it could be a very expensive trip!

[skier2788]

@DanE the T2 turns slightly better but doesn't accelerate as well. The T1 obviously is much faster easier to accelerate but isn't as good in the turns. For me the difference in the turn was very slight. I just really prefer the faster ski. Always have thinking back. Loved my rs1 elite A3 and now my T1. The visual is just different between the two in my opinion. The T2 I was early ahead of the ball but felt narrow. I think this was just in my head because of a different visual picture. I had to ski the T2 very aggressively in the turns and behind the boat. When I did it turned on a dime didn't lose speed. I ran 2@38 36 mph on it. It didn't give me the wow factor. Andy was awesome and we swapped to a T1. It is amazingly quick and still turns. I can go into a turn way too fast and the ski just turns and keeps moving. The visual is more what I am used to. I feel two feet wider on it than the T2. Its just different strokes for different folks. LOVE my T1!

@Krlee‌ I have ridden the Elite endo and g5..... plan on buying two skis. :wink:

[Razorskier1]

I would bet they are equally fast. I skied a 6.0 (the behind the boat ski) and it was fast and turned great. I skied the T2 and it turns automatically. (Almost no input required) and runs great. Looking forward to more time on it!

[Wish]

@DanE I rode both. The difference is as Andy described to me and what I wrote above. Hopefully I can answer you question if I understand it. I did have an opposite feel to what @Razorskier1‌ experienced in terms of automatic turn but that can be explained. They both have equal speed in my opinion. I would say that @Razorskier1‌ does put input into the turn. I'd say that it is so automatic for him it does not feel like effort or input. I would say he is a turner. Someone that either can and does make up any lost time in the turns and or someone that moves the ski through the turn. I do not do this because I suck at it. I ride a ski from the moment I release to the moment I hook up. Less is more.. sort of. When I did the less is more on the T2, the outcome was less everything from angle to speed blah blah blah... Andy specifically told me to start my turn earlier..to move the ski..to not wait on the ball at all. Not my style but when I did, everything was going 100% better. I did force a turn or two on the T1 and it came around just fine, but the beauty of it is I can do almost nothing and then get on it from white water to white water. My style. With out a doubt, I think most skiers fall into one or the other. Mapple has a ski for both. I can say they ARE different. I can bet you will like one and not the other. If you're unsure what type of skier you are, try both or send Andy a video and let him pick.

[Razorskier1]

@Wish is probably right. I've never considered myself a turner as I have historically made up ground with power behind the boat (years ago). However, as I have been working to "rebuild my swing" (a little golf lingo) I have been attempting to load the line a bit less. As a result I do think that I probably use more input in the turn. In addition, I would totally trust what @Wish sees when he watches me ski. If he says I'm a turner, he's right -- he has a great eye for what is happening on the water.

[Razorskier1]

If it works, I've pasted in a link to a sample of my skiing on the T2 the first day at Andy's. In watching it, I think @Wish is right!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O491w3-jRBM&feature=youtu.be

[Texas6]

Great skiing Jim!!! Your really quiet on that ski. That 35 was ridiculously smooth - even better than the opener

[disland]

 

@OB, @Wish and @Razorskier1 Its been a month. How about an update? Is the honeymoon over?

[Razorskier1]

@disland -- nope. I've been back in MN riding the ski since the start of October. In that time I've done 28 sets and 274 passes. Typically in October I don't run anything but 32s because it's cold, the water is fast, and I don't want any risk of falling. This October the totals so far are thirty 28s, one-hundred eighty-six 32s, fifty-four 35s (including 18 in one day), and an handful of 38s. The ski has impeccable behavior. It generates speed immediately, and does so without load. It is quiet and predictable even in pretty bad wind chop, meaning that unlike other skis I am confident in turning the ski and not getting "caught" by a wave. And finally, it turns smoothly and predictably no matter how hard I push it. I remain confident that if the pilot can execute, this is the ski to take me to the promised land of running -39.

 

@Dirt -- any updates from your end?

[ktm300]

Razorskier1 Please confirm your DFT. .84? I only have one ride on my 67.5 T2 but, I know I need to go forward with the fin. I am 6' 180 so kinda borderline between sizes. If .84, did Mapple go there in one whack or did you take smaller bites to get there. Thanks for anything you can add that will reduce my time to get it dialed in.

[Razorskier1]

@KTM300 -- that is the DFT. I am 6 feet and about 185. Not sure if it got there in the beginning, during the set, or over the course of several adjustments. I can say it works for me.

[Dirt]

@Razorskier1 Sorry for the delay. I've been working all week and not skiing. I still love the T2 even though it broke down and forgot there are 6 buoys in a slalom course.

@ktm300 I am at .791 dft measured with ski vertical, resting on tip. I felt a big difference between .78 and .79.

[Razorskier1]

Running out of season here. I ran 28 passes this morning including 22 35s without a missed ball and it felt easy. Ski is great! Big head tail tonight but skied again anyway. A couple 28s and fifteen 32s. Ski is really good in rough water. Water tonight was the kind most guys wouldn't ski. I felt totally confident in the ski up and down wind. It just sits in the water, turns and goes.

[Patmaster]

So it sounds like you ran more than 40 passes in a single day? You are in shape man....

[6balls]

@patmaster I've seen him do 30 passes in a single set. I believe it was one of 3 sets that day.

 

Looking forward to spring...want to try that T2 with my bindings on it though my check book doesn't want me to do so.