Deep Water 2 Footed Start

[SkiNGurl]

My 52 year old, 200 lb, athletic husband has decided to start skiing with me (in October). Once up, he's very stable. The problem is, I'm wearing him out trying to get him up, 7-10 tries. I've tried to describe exactly how I get up but not been successful in conveying this to him. I do NOT want him to get frustrated. Could someone try to offer some advice on this so he stays interested? He skied a little bit as a child and did the one foot start. But that's not working well either. I noticed that he not plowing under water and the handle ripping away. What's happening is, he ends up falling over to the right before he's out of the water. I find the 2 footed start so smooth and easy and I hardly exert any energy on it. Just can't figure out how to put into words what I do.

[Wish]

Why is he trying to get up on one ski? If he's not skiing the course and you have some length to your ski site, have him drop a ski and make it easy until he gets some skill's on top of the water. Unless his ego gets in the way, there is no reason to make him get up on one ski this late in the season. If the goal is fun, slap another ski on and go have some fun on one or two skis.

 

Thumbs up for him wanting to do something you're passionate about. The passion is obvious from your picture. You look great!!

[SkiNGurl]

There's no such thing as skiing on 2 ski's to him....LOL. By George he used to be able to pull up 35 years ago!!!!

[Wish]

Have him put his ego in check and just ski. If he just cannot make that happen, get him a wide ride ski...really wide. I have an older pair in this shape from Connelly and they are crazy easy to get up on. They also turn. For fun I run the course at 24mph 32 and 35 off. Might be one on Ski-it-Again or one like it.

http://www.boardco.com/products/1253-Ski/26056-Connelly-Big-Daddy-Slalom-Water-Ski-2014/?cvsfa=4417&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=36303134343731362d3236303536&gclid=CKew_sa-z8ECFSZo7AodHwgAKQ

.

 

 

OR:http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Slalom&postid=26779

[andjules]

Questions:

- which foot forward is he? (you mentioned he falls to the right)

- when you describe him plowing and/or falling over to the right, is that a one-foot start, or both-feet-in?

 

In general:

Falling right/left early usually means that the ski isn't being held in a way that the skier's mass is behind the ski.

Plowing/tip-sinking is often a case of knees not bent-up enough, and the ski's attitude being too vertical in the water.

 

I find the trick for teaching a two-footed start is:

when the rope tightens, let the ski tilt a little in the direction of the front foot (RFF skiers can let the ski tilt slightly to the right - tyring too hard to get it completely vertical makes causes unnecessary problems)

when the boat goes, there's a 1-2 second period where you resist, but don't really 'move', and this includes putting some pressure on BOTH feeet (but NOT straightening the legs - just pressure).

of course, the usual basics apply: arms straight, knees completely bent, and knowing that almost all falls that are forward in nature are the result of trying to stand-up/straighten legs too quickly.

[SkiNGurl]

He's RFF. With 2 feet in, he falls to the right. With one foot in, it's wild and out of control, darting left and right as he rises from the water. When he does get up, skiing is smooth sailing. Looks like he ski's everyday of his lift. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to print the comments off and let him read them as a guide before we try again later in the week.

[thompjs]

Don't try to hold ski straight at the start. Depending on foot forward it should angle over about 30 deg. This will allow skier to pull knees in closer to chest. Ski will straighten out by itself.

(This is for both feet in).

 

If water is hitting skier in face, take a breath and tuck head down for the first few feet of the start.

 

 

[Chef23]

OK so I am 48 6' and have weighed as much as 240 pounds since I got back in to skiing about 10 years ago after taking 15+ years off. I get up with no problem with one foot in.

 

My first thought would be what ski is he on. When I started back I was on an HO Charger which is a 69" Wide ride ski with a ton of support. The skis that @Wish posted would be a great place to start.

 

I am a big believer that the one foot in start is much easier on the body than the two footed start particularly for bigger skiers. I am capable of getting out with both feet but it is harder on my body. I see women pop right up like it is nothing with their hair dry with both feet in but it doesn't work for me.

 

The fundamentals are the key. Knee into the chest make sure the ski is a ramp coming out of the water and don't try to stand up too soon. If the ski is darting around all over the place my guess is that you are speeding up too quickly and/or he is straightening his leg too soon.

 

My daughter struggled to learn to get up on one ski and ultimately stuck with the one leg method. For her I really had to watch her in the mirror to get the right application of throttle. I wanted her coming out of the water gradually but not with so much speed that she would get unstable. At times it seemed almost too slow but it helped keep the ski from wobbling around. Once she got it figured out the amount of throttle became less important.

 

Some video would help.

[RazorRoss3]

I would agree that for larger skiers the 1 foot start can be a lot easier since the ski sits in the water closer to horizontal and climbs up easier but the balance and strength need to be there as well. If your handle has a plastic guard on it so the rope is protected then you could have him put the ski on the other (wrong) side of the rope and the rope will support the ski and keep him from tipping off to the right. We do this on my college team but the plastic guard over the rope is necessary otherwise you fray your handle.

[andjules]

I'd agree with a lot of what @Chef23‌ has to say:

- stick with 1 foot in for a bit longer. When I used to teach summer camp, I'd concur that the 2-footed start tends to play to the strengths of women's physiology, so while it seems easy to you, it can take a big effort for some guys.

- if he's unstable coming out on one-foot, it's almost certain that he's trying to stand up too early. You can stay completely crouched for a long time and it tends to keep everything more stable. Knees bent to chest, arms straight (don't try to muscle it, you can't) and as you come up on the water, weight to the ball of your foot (hard to stand up with stability if the weight is on your heel). Let the back leg drag behind, toe pointed like a ballerina.

 

No offense to @RazorRoss3‌, but putting the rope on the wrong side of the ski is as likely to cause problems as to (temporarily) solve them. If the ski is consistently darting one way, focus on fundamentals.

[A_B]

If he is stuck on trying to a slalom start vs. dropping, make sure he has the rope on the front foot instep side of the ski. Arms should be straight out and handle close to the top of the ski by front foot, the back foot should be tucked up under his bum as close as possible and resist the temptation to dig the back foot in when coming out, as this will push a large wall of water and cause him to get pulled over. He can think about keeping the ski at a 45 degree angle and keep pushing his feet out in front of him, this keeps the ski on plane and out in front of him.

 

The boat should be a gradual and firm acceleration, not just burying it.

[Razorskier1]

The behavior described in the one foot start suggests to me he is pushing his leg straight too soon and hinging at the hips. A good one foot start (and I suppose same for two foot) requires a degree of patience to keep the ski in front of you and let the boat pull you up without pushing your leg out. As noted above -- resist, don't push.

[SkiNGurl]

WOW--lots of great answers. I really appreciate it. I'm sure this is going to help.

[DmaxJC_ski]

Knees in (like really in),arms out, and knees together, I know if I'm tired and lazy and let one of my knees separate one way or another it can be tough to pull out of it, acting like a rudder of course, and I concur with @Razorskier1‌ with the one foot start, hips up arms straight should settle out the speed wobble

[GOODESkier]

Just have him watch a couple videos........... (my son at 5 years old.........). The internet is always right.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFh5eIn94ts

 

[giantjoe]

I just learned deep water slalom starts this year. At 6'6" and 230lbs it's a tough go if you have no idea what's going on. Here's my $0.02:

1. Get a big ski (I'm on a 71" P-6) it creates a lot of lift, and a deep V handle, it helps to stabilize the ski at the very start.

2. One foot starts are easier for me, bring your right knee (RFF) as high up as possible. Put your knee between your arms.

3. Get the left leg way down in the water it's like doing a jackknife dive in the pool.

4. Let the boat pull your chest right into your knee, arms straight, and stay jackknifed.

5. Just keep dragging until it's very clear you can stand up. Push down on the back foot if/when it gets wobbly.

[GregHind]

 

 

Definitely take video next time as we can help yor driving just as much as his technique and get everything sorted for him

 

 

[mrpreuss]

Knees to your chest and KEEP YOUR BACK STRAIGHT

 

[m_pags]

After having both hips replaced 2 years ago I had to re learn deep water starts this year. I'M 6'-4" 215 LBS 51 years old. One foot start did not work so i switched to two footed start and found after several tries that if I applied more rear foot pressure after few seconds of forward movement I was able to pop right up. My ski is Radar Senate 69". Good luck.

[6balls]

I have a bad low back and find much less drag and back stress to start one foot out. I get enough back stress taking slack hits!

[rayn]

lots of great advice here. I would also get a slalom trainer rope for now as he relearns. Remember no ego in getting up. Just want to go ski.

[bassfooter]

@SkiNGurl‌ - What @giantjoe‌ said, plus arms straight! An "easy-up" handle that fits over the ski will keep the ski in front of him until he's moving fast enough to stand up. A "wide-body" ski as shown above works wonders, and a ski like that will help him learn the basics once he's up. But whatever equipment he's on, he needs to keep his arms straight and not stand up too soon.

 

 

[davemac]

Those Easy up or deep-v style starter handles help immensely. I keep one in the boat. Actually got someone up this year on their first try ever.

[Bill22]

+1 for the "easy-up" deep V handle. Best $50 bucks you could spend to teach anyone to ski.

[SkiNGurl]

So I was wrong, he's falling to the left not right. And as he read through all the great advice, he's realizing that 1) he's straightening his leg and bracing against the boat and trying to stand too early and 2) he did not have one knee behind the other. His left knee was out to the side like an anchor once the boat put tension on the rope. Got the deep V handle. I'll let you know how it goes when he tries again. I think he'll get it this time. Thanks so much.

[gsm_peter]

At the beginning I did not made all my starts. That was sort of embarrassing but drivers suffered most likely less than I did. Now after 4 seasons I nail almost all of them.

 

This is my starting procedure. I never learned how to start with one foot out so this is only valid for two feet’s in (LFF).

 

• Point ski 10-11 o’clock

• Tip 50 cm/1.4 Feet out of the water

• Back heel close to butt.

• Handle close to ankles

• Try to hold ski a bit flat on the water

• Say OK

• Exhale maximum to stabilize the core muscles

• Close eyes (contact lenses)

• Turn head down in order not to fill nose with water

• When getting up rise very, very slowly

 

 

 

[OldboyII]

I started at 55, weight is 220. Also with athletic background wich is not good help for start because body wanted to fight the boat ))

Never did one successful one footed start (the only I got from one footed is torn hamstring and out of game for one month).

I did one billion of attempts with 50/50 success before I made all things much simpler:

 

The only thing I think about is pulling the front knee to the chest and back heel to the bottom.

And that is.

I do not think neither about angle of the ski nor how dip the ski tip in the water.

Only trying to pull front knee to chest as strong as possible.

The rest goes authomatically.

 

Some time ago somebody clever on this forum told - " two footed start is exercise of body relaxation, the only power is concentrated in your fingers"

I do follow this advise and making now 9 out of 10.

Hope this help you

PS just make sure that sole of front foot is directed to the boat, at the same direction as rope, not aside.

If foot aside you fall inside ))

 

Sorry for language, I am not native speaker.

[Bill22]

@SkiNGurl‌ did you already have the easy up handle or did you just get 1? It should keep the ski from falling over to the side.

[SkiNGurl]

We already had it and he was using it this past weekend.

[bogboy]

@OldboyII‌ wow, great!

[BearSki09CF]

I took a huge step this season. I spent almost the whole summer on a Connelly Big Easy going back (from a 69" F1X) and re-training literally ALL of my fundamentals. It was brutal and I couldn't run the course on it from the start (flying way too far down course because this thing will glide FOR-EV-ERRRRR *voice of the sand lot* etc.). Long story short, I now cut way better behind the boat and slingshot myself out the other side to make a clean edge change and prepare for the balls. I find myself waiting on balls more often than not.

 

One of the biggest advantages is this ski has 700 square inches of area to life you out of the water (the thing is damn near a surf board). I am 6'1'' 230-245 depending on what day it is skiing with MO State 5 of 6 of the last years. What made this summer fun for me (besides learning to cut at the jump and going 62' at conference) was that I could ski sometimes 8-10 times through the course and really get into a good groove. Instead of exherting 15-20% of my strength coming up on the F1X, I pop up before I get to the prop wave with ease on The BE. I ski 26-15' with ease on the Big Easy (any faster than that and I start to loose the rear fin around 2-4-6), which sets me up for my sets on the "Ferrari" hah. Some of us have been having fun seeing how slow and short we can run the course on it.

 

Even if you don't go out and grab a Big Easy, a MidSX or something with more surface area will surely help until he can really get back into it. Prolly wont even take very long after he gets up and into skiing shape.

 

Good luck! Turn left, go far!

[PUNKEE]

If all else fails, put him on a barefoot boom. It is possibly the easiest way to teach someone to get up, and they are right there with you so you can watch and give helpful tips. My advice is don't give a million tips at once either, it just confuses people who may already be frustrated.

After say 10 starts on a boom, he will have his start technique dialed. Like you mention he can already ski once up, so this may be worth a try.

[Chef23]

@PUNKEE‌ good advice on not too many tips I always try to keep it simple.

 

I have heard good things about using a boom but it didn't help my daughter for some reason. She did better behind the boat than on the boom.

[LeonL]

Contrary to @gsm_peter said, falling to the side can be remedied in most cases by KEEPING YOUR EYES OPEN and looking at the ski. The slightest move to the side can be corrected soon if you see it going that way.

[maverick]

I (at 6'2" and 250#) start with both feet in, and find that when I fail a deep water start by falling off to the same side as your husband, it's almost always because I bury the tip of the ski at some point during the pull out (either standing too early, or letting my upper body weight come forward during the pull out). Big guys doing deep water starts with 2 feet in don't have much margin for error, so tell him not to get too frustrated. We have a boat with a strong hole shot, so what works well for me is to drag (very briefly) at idle speed to get my mass moving forward with the boat in the same line, and then when I hit it, I rock back in the water (bringing my ski tip higher) and concentrate on pinching my shoulder blades together to keep my weight back. If your husband has enough hand and upper body strength, I much prefer a hard, fast hit -- ski comes up on top of the water quickly and doesn't have much opportunity to submerge. If the boat's hole shot is marginal, or he struggles with being able to hang onto the handle, I'd opt for the 1 foot start. (A wild, erratic ski path during a 1 foot pull out may be as simple as having a front boot that is too loose on his foot, not allowing him to control the ski solely with that front foot.)