Vapor Lithium vs Vapor Graphite

[Youd270]

Hey Ballers, I have only been skiing for a couple of years and fairly new to Ball of Spray. With advice I have read from previous threads I purchased a Radar Theory as a ski to firstly learn on, then progress to skiing course. The Theory has been an insane ski (for my level) and has taken me up to working my way through 32mph @ 15off. I am keen to start comp skiing and have been putting some thought into what ski I might purchase next, also being fully aware that the Theory is going to serve me a little while longer. This is where my problem lies. I am keen to stick with Radar and purchase a Vapor after all the good things I have read on here and I want a full carbon ski. All of the courses I ski on are open water courses which are more often than not wind affected. So my question is, is the performance loss of the poly core in the Graphite going to be positive trade off for the extra forgiveness I would get skiing in average conditions. Or am I not really going to notice a considerable difference in forgiveness whilst skiing the course and better off to go the whole way and buy the Lithium?

 

 

[pgmoore]

Good question. I was actually wondering pretty much the same thing just last night. Only regarding the Lithium vs Graphite Senate. Also, I'm probably 50/50 between open water and private course.

 

I hope you get a ton of responses on this!

[Horton]

@Youd270

PU skis have some nice attributes. Theoretically they are more forgiving. In the end no one ever got the Lithium version and said "Gosh I wish I had the Granite version"

 

Coming off the Theory why not go to the Senate next? Lithium Senate?!?!?! Get it at http://www.perfski.com/

[pgmoore]

"In the end no one ever got the Lithium version and said "Gosh I wish I had the Granate version"

 

@Horton - That's good insight, for sure! What about the opposite... for 32/34mph and 15/22/28 off, do you think people buy the Graphite Senate and say, "I sure wish I had spent 70% more for the Lithium version." Or is the benefit only noticeable at shorter line lengths?

 

[Youd270]

@horton I guess that is one way to look at it. Maybe I should go the Lithium and not wish in a year or two that I had of. The reason I was thinking Vapor is that if I start comp I have a 10 years of having to ski at 36mph (if I ever get there!!) and I don't want to have to buy another ski for 36. Do you think the senate would be ok at longer line 36?

 

It would be great to hear @swini and @chrisrossi thoughts if they have anything to add.

[bassfooter]

@Youd270, my two cents. If you're running 32 mph passes after a "couple of years" and looking to get to 36 in competition, it sounds like you're athletic and young. I'd drop the coin on a Vapor Lithium, get it tuned at a nearby ski school and get busy. You'll have a ski you won't outgrow for a few more seasons that will allow to improve at your pace. Keep in mind I'm saying this without the benefit of watching you ski; if you're a scrappy mess at 32 mph, you might want to heed the advice of @horton. He's certainly way more qualified than I.

[cragginshred]

I went with their top of the line skis way before I was ready for them and never regretted it! Riding the Vapor lithium now and love it!

[Horton]

@Youd270 At 36 you want the Vapor but the path to 36 might be easier on the Senate

[BRY]

@youd270 Go Lithium Vapor if you are skiing buoys with 36mph in sight. It is very forgiving, rips at both 34 and 36 (rare) and tolerant of improper set up. Magic when set up right. I have found mine handles rollers and wind chop quite well, way better than my Goode's did. But then I know I'm being a wimp if I bail on anything short of white caps in the course.

[Youd270]

Thanks guys for your thoughts. I can absolutely see where you are coming from @horton. My mate has a Senate Graphite which is a really nice ski and I would love to be able to make that step, but I can't justify buying a mid range ski with the possibility of having to buy a high end one in another few years if I make it to 36. My plan is to also keep my Theory for free skiing.

[andjules]

My 2¢ (and not worth much more): forgetting about the ski for a second, I'm not sure I agree with your economics. It seems to me it makes sense to spend less (on a good value high-intermediate ski, like a senate graphite), own for a shorter duration (2-3 years), sell used on ski-it-again.com while it still has some value and then re-invest in a newish top-end/top-speed/shortline ski when you get there (vs finally getting to the level you're aiming for only to own a 3-or-more year old ski and being back @ ballofspray.com with everyone going on about how the 2018 Radar Vapor Uranium or Goode Nanite Reverse Twist is light years ahead of "old" skis). A brand new $1500+ top-end ski becomes a $400-600 used ski on ski-it-again pretty quickly (2-3 years).

 

And remember, bindings are a different story. You don't have to upgrade your boots on the same schedule - in fact, you typically should only switch one at a time (bindings or ski).

 

Also, don't over-believe the marketing: a Senate won't magically be awesome at 34 and then instantly suck at 36. It's slightly optimized for 34, that's all. Which is what HO said about their S2, and I'm pretty sure Brian Detrick rocks that ski into -41 @ 36.

[bojans]

Just my $0.02, a Senate graphite @~ $700 and $800 is good coaching may be > a $1,500 Vapor at this point in your skiing career. I'm not sure what type of coaching you get now but as @bassfooter said if you are running 32 in a couple years you probably have some real potential. Good coaching will help you develop faster than a great ski (having both doesn't hurt).

[Youd270]

@bojans I plan on getting some more coaching next season I am in Australia and our season is coming to an end. This is all in aid of future planning and winter contemplating. I'm hoping that I can get through 32 confidently on my theory then have 34 and 36 to work on and thinking that the vapor won't be to much of backwards step before it takes me forward. I would like to get a senate but still find it hard to justify if at the end of the day I'm going to need a vapor anyway. This has been some of the reasoning behind my original question asking whether there would be a night and day difference in forgiveness between the PU and PVC core with the fact I'm thinking of 'jumping a step' in skis.

 

@andjules I can see where you are coming from but unfortunately for me I'm one of these people that doesn't like buying used gear. Which is very high maintenance I know but the reasoning behind my economic thinking.

[andjules]

@Youd270 You may have misinterpreted my point. I wasn't trying to persuade you to buy used. I do think (as with cars and houses) there is a value to selling your used ski and factoring that into how you think about your purchases.

 

A (new) Vapor Lithium lists for $500-$800+ more than a Vapor Graphite or Senate Graphite (both all-carbon skis!). I'd argue at 32mph/-15 through 36/-28(?) you're not going to derive massive benefit from having a PU vs PVC core. By the time it might be making a difference, your Lithium will have depreciated $600-900 and (if you're anything like the rest of us) you'll be lusting after the latest-and-greatest ski. In other words, the extra $$ you spent on your top-end ski will have lost value without necessarily having given you value. Spending less today for a perfectly good all-carbon 'graphite' ski will pay off in a couple of years when you're ready for the best.

 

And @bojans makes the most important point: a $700 ski + $800 coaching will go further than a $1500 ski every time. I need to remember that lesson too.

[londonskier]

Go Senate. You can always buy a Vapor in a few years. Its just gonna be more enjoyable and not toss you off when you're out of shape. I'm not saying the vapor is difficult, its not, but I think youll ski more passes on the senate.

[eleeski]

Half the fun of a new ski is that it is new. Maybe you are shooting for the best deal, maybe you want an extra half buoy or maybe you just want pretty graphics. All valid reasons for a new ski. Unfortunately those reasons reappear a while after you got your ski.

 

Some buy and sell. Some donate to the college teams or other deserving kids. Some collect. I don't know what @Horton does. I break mine.

 

Buy the ski that works for you. Personally I go for the highest end ski I can afford.

 

My polyurethane core skis didn't last as long as my PVC core skis so I stay away from polyurethane. But my build process is quite different and I have not heard of any problems with factory polyurethane skis.

 

Whatever ski you get will improve your skiing (adapting to any new ski requires expansion of your skills). Enjoy the purchase.

 

Whatever your performance goal may be, most of the high end skis have skiers who have ridden that ski to that buoy count. You should be able to make any of them work. It's the skier not the ski.

 

Eric

[ALPJr]

It's gotta look cool!