Baller 6balls Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ice is out, and the last two days I skied an '87 MC 190 open water at 28 off, and barefooted behind it tonight. I also pulled a very recreational skier at 15 off 30 mph who raved about the tiny wake. Until 2010 this boat was our primary tug with PP and I know all about the short-line spray...but she tracks nice and the wake is really great. In '07 I ran 35 off at 36 behind her, and have 38's at 34 behind her as well. Jump up a few years to '91-'94 MC 190 with EFI and spray relief pockets and PP...even better and available on the dirt cheap today. Even better a '97 on up GT-40 SN 196. No more spray issue, better tracking yet, rope never catches on bubble but, fantastic wake. A good number of Ballers need to train ZO and behind the latest boats both for enjoyment and similarity to their tourney conditions. For those who don't there are fantastic options out there at terribly reasonable prices. The last few days shows me there is a lot of on the water fun to be had behind a '87 MC 190...and if I were never going to ski a tourney again I could live with that boat in the buoys (tho may need some spray goggles until I'm too old to go short). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rockdog Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 I second the 97 196 GT-40, love mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 97 up SN can't go wrong. Add ZBox and you might just settle in.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted April 13, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted April 13, 2015 WSM did an article listing best of the best older rides. Like above, the early 90s MC, and bubble back SN were listed. They also listed the 80s Supra ts6m. A shortliners dream boat. No spray, rail like tracking and styling lines and looks a decade ahead of anything and everything of that era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 9400 Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 Does anybody on here have a zero off updated older boat and ski tournaments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 May I add a 92-97 Supra Comp, excellent wake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted April 13, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted April 13, 2015 @liquid d Has a 98 SN Re-powered with an EX 330 and ZO, ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Spuddy Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 I have a 97 196 and I almost prefer it to a 200 or Malibu, have not had the privilege of skiing behind a new pro star yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller RAWSki Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 Yes the late 80's-91' MC were affectionately called 'aqua massages' in shorter line lengths and or in some wind! Next generation of ProStar is really hard to beat. MB 190s and 200plus are very nice too, similar hulls and big trunks for family gear. Centurion Falcon-Eclipse wakes are great for slalom of all ability and speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Fine409 Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 @6balls - just picked up a 94 PS190 last weekend...you'll have to come over sometime and ski it with me sometime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 13, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 @dtm8119 sounds good! @9400 @thager has a ZO '02 SN 196. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller pgmoore Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 @RAWSki - We've been using a '97 MB 190 at the public lake for the past three years. With PP speed control and a GT40, it's perfect for what we need there. The 200 at the club is admittedly better in terms of spray as the line gets short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jcamp Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 It really is a shame that so many really good boats are obsolete (at least to many competitive skiers anyway) just because of speed control technology. I'd guess it does quite a lot of damage to the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 @9400 I converted my 02 196 to ZO in 2010. I have had no problems skiing behind other ZO boat types at tournaments which was not so when I had PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 One of the nicest boats I've ever skied behind was a 95 PS190 which had been converted to an Ilmor 5.7 with ZO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 16, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 16, 2015 Just skied 5 of the last 6 days behind the '87 MC...1100 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted April 17, 2015 Administrators Share Posted April 17, 2015 @jcamp Bingo! Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy_728 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 When it comes time for my new boat, it will likely be a late 90s early 2000s SN 196 or 90s mastercraft and I'll restore it. I've seen more than one top level skier train behind a PP equipped boat then jump behind a zo boat and still run into or through 38 off....While I'm no pro level skier, these actions speak volumes in my mind. I ski behind my 93 malibu euro f3 I restored, a 2003 SN 196 and 2014 prostar zo boat and do the same behind each (-28 with -32 attempts last season at 34) I just want to have fun though :) I'm sure there is a difference but it doesn't stand out as "slap in the face" to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Bruce_Butterfield Posted April 17, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted April 17, 2015 @9400, I use a '97 Nautique that I repowered for ZO with an Excalibur 343. Over 800 hrs on the new motor in 3 seasons. Runs like a top and from the skier's standpoint, no difference with the newer boats. Total of 2500 hrs on the boat. Nothing wrong with the GT-40, but needed ZO for several reasons. If it was easy, they would call it Wakeboarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted April 17, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted April 17, 2015 Last season in a tournament behind a 2014 MC with ZO....1.5@39 and I train 85% of the time behind a 97 SN with CLASSIC PP. I mean CLASSIC..it's original to the boat. It's not about finding a match to train behind. It's about finding a ZO setting that makes if feel easier then what you train behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashman Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I always enjoyed skiing behind this boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 17, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 17, 2015 @wish like you I train PP classic but perhaps 98% percent. Both of us would be better at tourney's if we trained ZO. If a '91-'94 MC Prostar with LT1 could have ZO...anyone could train better for tourneys for a very low price of entry. Similar argument for a '97 onward SN 196. Reasonable price of entry. Running this carb, 240 hp, '87 MC for the last week with PP free skiing at 28 off has certainly brought to the forefront the fun factor of simply having a boat and skiing. Traffic is stopping to watch us, kids with jacked up pick-ups at the park are intrigued by the V8 sound (and the sound of Led Zeppelin from the stereo as we change over). Wake kicks butt...I'm having a riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jhughes Posted April 17, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 17, 2015 @6balls I got my GT40 2000 SN pretty damn close to ZO feel and times with Z-box and some tinkering last fall. After the club boat sold early, my old tug stood in for a month and it felt great. In one instance we were training behind it on Friday, tournament on Saturday with actual ZO and we were fine. If anything actual ZO was slightly easier feeling. You can hear the old Ford reacting and settling down nicely, ignore the skier lack of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted April 17, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted April 17, 2015 Been back and forth between a LXi ZO and mine for 3 weeks now. No performance differance in how I ski. There is a difference in how they feel but it seems easier behind ZO. And my GT-40 runs 10x smoother then the LXi soooo...tough to drop $$$ on a paid for boat. Did several months on a 200 a while back and also noticed very little improvement in my skiing and didint really mind going back to PP. Will convert in a few yrs when my clock hours reach closer to 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 17, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 17, 2015 @wish I think as long as you are getting in some regular ZO time and have settings etc...it's ok to go back and forth. More difficult when there is only PP all the time, and then a tourney here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller pgmoore Posted April 18, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 18, 2015 I like this thread a lot. But it has me thinking about the wake on my older boat... As I mentioned above, we use a 1997 MB Sports Boss 190 at the public lake. As I understand it, that boat is built using the '91-'94 Prostar hull. And that's when it got me thinking, I wonder what tweaks can be done to improve the wake? The boat skis well for sure... But what adjustments might make it ski even better? Weighting the front? Anything else? We don't use that boat in the course at all and already try to keep it as light as possible by not carrying extra stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 18, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 18, 2015 @pgmoore I don't see much reason to improve the wake on a '91-'94 MC...or even the '87 MC I'm free skiing at the moment for fun. Great wakes...lack of current horsepower/speed controls and spray at shortline. Aside from that...great ski boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller pgmoore Posted April 18, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 18, 2015 @6balls - fair enough. Totally plausible that there is nothing worth doing. Which is great! That makes me happy for sure! In terms of horsepower, to be honest the GT40 has been just fine for our needs. We only slalom (no barefoot) and I've yet to find a person that I can't pop up out of the water. And as for speed control, I will concede that my Stargazer system is not the same (or as good) as the ZO in the club boat. But would recommend it to anyone over nothing. It's a marriage saver for sure!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Onside135 Posted April 18, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 18, 2015 @9400…I have a repowered TSC1 w/Zero Off. Thanks @Jody_Seal I think it's basically the best thing going. It's almost as good to ski behind as a $40-60K boat. I'm a fairly active tournament skier and routinely drive/ski the newer boats. I don't find it hard at all to go from my boat to one of the newer models of any manufacturer. The wakes/spray are marginally better, but the zero off pull difference is not really an issue. I originally wasn't planning to get a Zero boat, but I can't imagine not having it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 18, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 18, 2015 If I lived closer to @Jody_Seal , my bubble butt would be ZO converted. Skied it open water today at 28 off as we still have no courses in the water. Have to give slight edge 28 off wake 34 mph to the '87 MC. Tracking, power, drive-ability, to the bubble butt. Obviously as line gets shorter the spray issue would come up...otherwise again favorable performance by the old '87 MC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted April 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 19, 2015 My 97 SN Bubble butt has the Jody Seal (ZO and new engine) treatment and is fantastic to ski. We also have an 07 SN (ZO)196 and switch back and forth daily. The 97 has the step on the gunwale lined with rubber making it the easiest boat to get in and out. I would do it again in a heartbeat! If I was getting a new boat, I'd probably trade the 07 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 19, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 19, 2015 @liquid d I like no trunk as well. Easier to the platform. The newer TSC's I think drive a little more like a train...has a heavier feel and flatter attitude. The bubble butt goes in the water today at the swamp...next task will then be raising two courses and we're off to the races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted April 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 19, 2015 @6balls You need to come drive and ski my 02! I like my trunk! Easier to slide onto platform and ease into water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 19, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 19, 2015 @thager I do want to do that...as for the trunk...I'm a toe loop guy I just step right into the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller RAWSki Posted April 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 19, 2015 @6Balls, you do have a nice boat already in the MB and the wake is very close to the current boats, you might try a little weight in the bow or perhaps a different prop but that's about it. If you aren't using it in the course then it's probably just fine "as is" Just Ski It! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 19, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 19, 2015 @rawski the '87 MC 190 is my buddy's boat...you are right in that outside the course it's a great ski boat. For anyone up through 28-32 off it's also great just get the spray going any shorter. We just dropped in the dock, boat lift, and boat at our ski swamp with 2 courses along with my 196. No need to set it up any better...all dialed in! (just lacks ZO but oh well). There's a guy nearby selling a '93 MC 190 with 386 hours and the 285 hp Indmar for asking $9K. Will make a fantastic boat for someone and a TON of boat for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller xrated Posted April 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 20, 2015 @6balls that 93 looks damn clean. By my math the guy averaged 20 hours a year in the time he has had it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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