Moving only rear binding back

[mbabiash]

What does moving just the rear binding back do to how the ski turns?

 

[Than_Bogan]

Probably make onside turn more radical with somewhat less effect on offside turn.

[Hallpass]

Tons of experts here who probably know how every adjustment of 100th of an inch makes a difference. I'm not that guy. But, I did read an article about rear boot placement. The article said that for an average sized man, the rear heal should be about 12 inches behind the forward heal. Shorter folks a little less; taller folks a little more. I checked two of my skis and found the rear binding was closer, rear toe shoved up against the front binding. I made the adjustment and found the stance to be more comfortable, easier to bend my knees, and easier to get into a leveraged position across the wake. You are probably a more advanced skier, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway. BKH

[Horton]

@Hallpass I would like to see that article. Most skiers do best with binding extra close together. I confess I am not 100% sure why. I always move my bindings together and maintain spacing. Maybe I am missing some options.

[aupatking]

Found a Schnitz article on that exact subject. Moved my back boot back, offside feels cleaner and easier. Put one foot directly behind the other, step back an inch or so. Front knee bends more. I'm thinking there's something to it.

Also noted that Jeff Rodgers had almost 1.75 inch spread. That number, I'm certain is wildly inaccurate, but it was a BIG number for spacing

[Hallpass]

@Horton, the article was in Water Ski Magazine and written by Seth Stisher. Find it here: http://www.waterskimag.com/how-to/2009/07/09/maximize-your-stance/. Obviously, I'm not as skilled as many of you here, but it did make a difference for me. We're only talking an inch to inch and a quarter from front heal to my rear toe. Regards, BKH

[Texas6]

Interesting read, I've never heard that but there is certainly logic to it. At 5'11, I've always ski'd with the toe of my back foot touching the heel of my front foot (Strada/Vapor bindings). I've also never canted my rear boot, but do notice my back knee experiences a bit more tendinitis than my front, and that very well could have something to do with it. Time to experiment

[skialex]

My approach when I put a new ski on, is to put the front binding at stock and the rear at a distance that my toes barely touching the heel of the front boot.

Then I try to move the front binding forward just before the point that it hearts my skiing and the rear backwards again just before the point that the on side becomes radical.

Take some out of the maximum placements and usually I find a good boots position for me.

[MattP]

I think this thread addressed a lot of your questions. http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/9794/moderated-topic-binding-spacing

 

@AdamCord dropped some insightful insight into binding spacing.

 

@OB even said All I know is I can't run my boots much farther apart without feeling awkward and like I'm riding a bus instead of a sports car. Apparently that has changed.

[GAJ0004]

I was always told you want the bindings to be as close together as possible so you have greater range of motion with your knees.

[Chef23]

A few years ago April Coble had me move my rear boot back which put a little spacing between my feet to make me more comfortable on the ski. I generally want about an inch to inch and half between the toes of my rear foot and the front boot. I do use a RTP and get up with one foot in so my rear foot placement is probably not that consistent.

[MattP]

@OB I was just pointing out that you can teach an old dog new tricks!

[Than_Bogan]

I definitely have come to view spacing as a tunable parameter that can be ski-specific. On my 9900, I had my boots relatively far apart -- maybe a 3/4" gap from toe to back of boot. I'm pretty sure that was right for me for that ski. But that spacing was awkward on the N1, and I've ended up with them quite close together.

 

That said, I didn't directly think in terms of spacing, but rather I followed Dave Goode's instruction on how to adjust each boot's position. The rear one needed to move forward to make my on-side less radical. But then the front one needed to move back to get my c.o.m. back in the best spot for the off-side. (Naturally, the actual tuning process was a little more complicated with some minor mis-steps.) Once I had gone through that process, the RESULT was that my boots were closer together on the N1.

[eleeski]

The conventional wisdom in trick skiing used to be "as close as you can get". Now we mount the rear binding back about 3cm or 1 inch from the tightest position.

 

Slalom bindings are not placed in stone either. Some new bindings can allow really close spacing. Others require extra separation over a rubber boot. Skis react differently to binding placement as well. The most important thing is to get a comfortable feel. You can adapt your style to make anything reasonable work.

 

Since it is ridiculously easy to move most bindings separately, why not try a bit more space? If it works, you are a pioneer. If not, move the binding back to where it was and you wasted one set.

 

Eric

[skosney]

Moving my rear foot back leveled out my onside turn making for a smoother and more complete turn. For years ... no decades... I had my feet as close I as could get them (nearly toe to heal) and struggled with a slight hitch and tip rise on my harder passes. Moving them apart vastly reduced that issue. I noticed no deterioration in my already strong off-side turn.

[aupatking]

http://www.schnitzskis.com/bindingtuning.html

Good, easy to follow info

[david_ski]

This is a very interesting topic. I have been dialing in my new bindings (reflex and r-style rear ) from 10year old fluid motions double boots. i had to add some heel lift the the rear to compenstate for ankle range of motion limitations. Another story altogether and a another thread. Until I added the heel lift I could not get the reflex to work for me.

 

Anyway. I am 6'0" with 9.5-10 shoe size. After reading article and links, I am thinking my foot spacing is too close. I have always tried to place feet as close together as possible without thinking about overall. This mornings Reflex heal to heal spacing was at 11.5". Front bindings are one hole forward from neutral on a D3 Quest. I moved rear back one hole to neutral to 11.75 heal to heal.

 

On the ski I felt that I could get wide easy, much easier after the wakes, and my driver said I appeared much more relaxed and comfortable behind the boat. Rope lengths 22off - 32off @34mph. I felt a little more drag on the ski. The other feeling I felt was the the ski was skiing with more surface in the water. I did not expect that by moving the rear binding back. Amazing what one hole (1/4inch) does for changes. Tomorrow I will start at this setting for the first set.

 

Tonight I measured my old Fluid Motion binding setup, the heal to heal (minimum spacing) is at 12.25". I still have some distance to play with to get to the distance on the new Reflex I skied with for the last 10+ years.

 

Tomorrow goals: Start at 11.75" heal to heal first set, and try 12.00" second set.

[mmosley899]

After watching @OB play with the spacing and reading those articles, I moved my ankle spacing to 11.875 from 11.250. Cleaned up my onside turn and allowed me to move forward with the front boot position to help my offside. Much better setup. Worth trying if you are still running your feet close together.

[jlittle]

I'm at 12 1/4", size 9 shoe and 5'-8. Through the years I've tried closer, and can do fine at 12", but a larger wheel base seems to suit me better.

[Ali]

You guys have talked me into trying this, front binding forward move it will be tomorrow am. If I crash and burn, it is all the fault of BOS.

 

cheers

Ali

[Chef23]

@Ali everything here seems to be about moving just the rear binding back not moving the front binding forward.

[303Skier]

A few years back I went and stayed with Will Asher to get some training and he had me move my RTP back. He said the reason behind it is more balance and better stability. My Avatar is actually me at Sawmill lake where Will lives.

[Ralph Lee]

Ashers is way back! But his toes aren't that far from his front binding

[sfriis]

@david_ski, interesting experience you had, maybe it is not the distance between your feet - but the fact that you are overall longer back on your quest - I have a Quest as well, and when I worked on the fin/binding setup in the spring it seemed that "everybody" in here moved the bindings BACK - not front like you. My point is: is it the distance between your feet or is it the overall (mid) position on the ski that makes the difference ?

I think that the closer your feet is - the faster the change of weight-distribution on the ski.... and maybe all new ski's today ski better with constant weight distribution or slower weight transition than "in the old days" when we added a lot of pressure on the front in preturn and quiqly moved back at the finish of the turn...

[Texas6]

Does this not restrict the movement of your rear heel? Just playing with it on dry land, it seems to restrict my movement up over my front foot OR it requires more rear heel lift to get forward? Is that off base? I know, just try it. I will but just curious

[Waternut]

It's a tuning parameter for me. I change the fin when it's just my offside, I change the back binding when it's just the onside. Yes, I can fix my onside turns with the fin too but then I have to make additional adjustments to get the offside back to normal.

 

If this was a science, we wouldn't need to adjust anything. WAY too many variables to just claim a specific magic number is best for ankle gap on all skiers.

[david_ski]

@sfriis you may have a point. With my front binding up one hole and back back one hole, they might be close to neutral overall. When I had come up with the placement with my front foot forward one hole, that was before I got my rear heel lift squared away. I was struggling to get the new bindings right with the ski.

 

Previous ankle injuries have limited my ankles range of motion and the solution was to add 3/4" lift to my heel. Otherwise I could not get my weight forward. For some unknown reason I did not immediately add the lift to my new reflex system that I had used in my old fluid motions. Now that I have the ankle lift dialed in, I should revisit my front binding placement.

 

New ski and bindings this season. As of Aug 1 I have I made more 32off passes this year than I made entire last season. Ski is behaving much better than last ski overall. I still have not made a 35off this season. I was making 35off regularly back in 2010/2011.

 

Back to binding placement. Moving rear binding back may be compensating for the front foot too far forward. The last set on Friday the ski felt like it my body was really well centered on the ski and the ski was floating and wanted to go from edge to edge. I have not felt that prior to adjusting the rear. More experimentation is required. Monday, I will move the front backwards and rear forward, back to a narrow heel to heel distance with the bindings in the neutral position.