The state of water skiing in the USA from the BallOfSpray perspective

[skihard]

@Horton thanks so much for clarifying at the beginning that skiing isn't dying but tournament skiing is.

 

Said it before under different "Discussion" topics - the current format for tournament skiing isn't working and until they change it the numbers will continue to dwindle until tournament skiing is dead in the water.

 

It's the format that's killing it in my mind. Needs to be handicapped in some way shape or form so that any individual going to a tournament will be skiing and competing against the same level of skier.

 

I'm very new to this at my age vs someone who has been chasing buoys for years and is a seasoned skier. As much as I like it and have improved over my 1 1/2 years of chasing those damned orange buoys please tell me how I'm expected to even remotely challenge a veteran in my bracket? I'm 49 years and have yet to run a pass at 32 off. Lots of days 28 isn't even in the picture and challenging at best but I can get there.

 

I have skied in 3 tournaments in my 1 1/2 years and more so only to be a part of the action, donate my money to the AWSA, and meet some new and great people. Please note 2 were hosted at our lakes and my other one about 20 mins away.

 

There is no way on earth that I would even consider travelling an hour out of the day each way or longer to go and get 3 pulls for entry fee and go home when I know I'm beat before I even go off the dock.

 

Yes I also understand the rankings and ratings but I personally only see that as being your challenge for Regionals and Nationals. And your score from any "handicapped rated' tournament should be able to count against those rankings.

 

I believe a handicapping system for youth and adult skiers being the draw that would see tournament skiing increase it's numbers. I can only speak for slalom as it's all I do but a ramp is in my close future too!

 

If I know I can go to a site and there will be people there skiing in my handicapped bracket against me then it's different than me going off the dock against some dude who is going to run into 38 before he even thinks he has any trouble ahead of him. The tournaments need to be brought back to Grass Roots or Starter level if you will to invite EVERYONE out to try it.

Again i will say your ranked scores can still go against ranked systems.

 

I have created a handicapped spread sheet that I want to play with and see if it can't create a bit more interest in making things a bit more fun and in some ways create a challenging atmosphere for people who would ski against each other based on ability vs age and bracket.

 

I was challenged by someone to see if I could do something and create a bit of a ski league if you will between neighboring communities. Might be late in the year so will see if a fall run off can work or not? It may have to wait until next spring?

 

I guess I will pitch it and see what happens? I can only fall down on my face but some of what I have read previously tells me I think I might be on to something here? I will follow up later.

 

And another thing - this sport does have THE BEST PROFESSIONALS IN ANY SPORT hands down!!!

 

 

 

[Sean]

I skied in college, mostly for the girls, parties, and free coaching from teammates. I didn't ski another tournament for years after graduating since it was no longer a team event, I didn't know anyone, and I'm nowhere near advanced enough to hold my own.

 

The next tournament I got into was a barefoot one since the organizer was giving (and still gives) free entry to anyone if it's their first barefoot tournament, and gives lessons the day before for the price of gas. I had nothing to lose by trying it. There was a huge potluck the first night, and I met a couple cool people there. We camp out together, have a fire, have some beers, it's a good time. I now do that tournament yearly.

 

If there was a three event tournament nearby (within a couple hours) that either was offering free lessons the day before or free entry for first timers, I'd try it out (who wouldn't?). If the people there were welcoming and I got to know some of them, I'd be interested in coming back. I'd be even more interested if there were a handicap in place. I think Horton's idea of taking five tournament scores in the past year for a handicap would be too many to interest me. I can't see myself ever doing more than three tournaments a year (that's a lot in a short WI summer), so taking the past two scores would appeal to me more and incentivize me to entering two other tournaments.

[klindy]

There's a pretty well thought out proposal to the AWSA Board of Directors which includes a league structure designed to enhance competition. Generally speaking leagues are "pre-defined" teams of skiers who would then compete against each other.

 

Leagues can be ski club, family, farger/daughter, any "5" skiers, pro/am, etc. The idea is to allow groups of skiers to compete either at the same tournament or across the country. Depending on the team, certain "rules" allow for fair competition and flexibility.

 

Skiers simply need to ski in a sanctioned tournament and when the scores hit the ranking list everything else is automatic. There is a simple handicapping system which is designed to level the playing field.

 

The general idea however is to promote actual competition among members which, I agree, is lacking today. Alone it certainly isn't the answer but it's a good step forward. And it seems it would resonate with lots of people who have posted in this thread.

[DW]

I will throw in a little perspective, particularly to Jody's points and compare to a much more costly hobby:

1. Cost - competitive skiing is actually not that horribly expensive compared to car racing or motorcycle racing as an example. Agreed, the costs have risen pretty dramatically, unfortunately to items (3 and 5) but the sport did this to itself (latest speed control & new boats required). I would say that government and crowding issues also have driven tourney skiers to private lakes which added significant cost and access issues but insurance costs have done the same to local tracks.

2. Competition - the best of the best can and do drop down and compete at every level of the sport, guys like Tony Stewart, Carl Edwards, the Busch brothers, the Dillon brothers all drop several levels down and compete against local racers & many Indycar drivers go race go karts. That activity is encouraged by the track or series promoter to draw fans. The races that draw the elite level talent tend to draw more competitors and fans, why would that be different for competitive skiing?

 

There are similar parallels to amateur sports car racing, the sport has also contracted significantly and the reasons why are alarmingly similar to Jody's post - cost, rules, archaic thinking and mainly competition from other formats / sports that provide the ROI the competitor is looking for.

[ALPJr]

Perhaps this is another thread - "Soul Skiing". The keys for me are being with people that you enjoy spending time with, in a beautiful setting, doing an exilihirating and fun sport. It's the soul of skiing. Not a lot different than the souls of cycling, surfing or golf where far more people do their own thing with friends rather than compete. I grew up free skiing behind outboards and io's in the Great Egg Harbor estuary in southern New Jersey. Countless sunsets and miles of open glass. I can also say that I always had fun at the Marin and Berkeley club events when I lived in the Bay Area in the mid 90's. Reasonable dues and $5 a practice set to the boat driver, tourney fees included t-shirts with raffles and food, and a couple fundraisers. We had a ton of fun at Spencer's Training Camp in Owego NY which had one of the the best ski vibes going from the 80's to the 2000's. A beautiful setting, great coaching, laid back atmosphere, reasonable rates - went from $9 a set in 1988 to $20 a set in 2005. About 15 - 20% of the people were tournament skiers. Today I'm very lucky to ski with some of the nice folks from the Nipmuc Waterski Club in beautiful New England. Still a pretty reasonable cost.

 

I agree with those that wrote skiing is not fading away. Tourney numbers may be down but I think the sport is strong.

 

Tournaments are very cool for those who want to be involved. I don't have the time these days. I'd like to see a little more creativity at the local level which it sounds like more are trying to do, and hopefully some day a great pro tour gets some legs.

 

 

[mopowpow]

32 skiers at the Iowa state tourney last weekend. It is an improvement over 18 skiers 2 years ago. 8-10 years ago we would get 70-80 skiers and run the tourney for 2 days. But that was when the southern Canadians would come down to ski, now our state tourneys are on the same weekend, way to shoot yourself in the foot! Also, other ski clubs around our state won't host it. There has been talk of letting our state tournament die for a few years. I haven't skied it in about 3 years, even though I would probably win, I have better use of my time and money.

[Ralph Lee]

Skied in my first and probably tournament last year. Boring! and $50 for one set, Lol!!

[Ralph Lee]

last tournament

[Than_Bogan]

$50 for one set!? Wtf. Even in the rather expensive northeast the standard is 3 rounds for $45.

[mlange]

This boils down to two things for me:

 

* As @gregy stated earlier... water sports have splintered. It used to be that skiing was just about the only thing you could do behind a boat. Very few people barefooted or did much else. Now you have wakesurfing, wakeboarding, wakeskating, tubing, etc... If you took all the people that do that stuff and had them skiing instead you'd have much higher numbers now then back in the 80's.

* For someone like me that would be considered a strong open water skier, but a crappy 22 or 28-off skier in the course I have two options - go to a tourney, miss my pass on each of my attempts and go home after an entire day getting very little skiing in or... ski as much as my body can handle on my home lake with friends. Easy decision. And because of that I will likely never ski in a tournament again.

 

Mike

[escmanaze]

I played sand volleyball for a little while and I think they may have some perspective to offer the waterskiing world.

 

1. Guaranteed # of runs: I refuse to pay whatever dollars just to show up and fall on my first pass and be done. If I'm paying to enter the tournament, a big part of what I'm paying for is the opportunity to ski at a first class private lake behind a first class brand new promo boat. If you promise me 12 passes of skiing at a premier venue, we can start talking. Most sand volleyball leagues usually had a guaranteed minimum number of games, and then you had to advance in the tournament to get more. But at least you were guaranteed a minimum # of games on first class sand and first class lines and nets.

 

2. Properly subdivided talent groups. In volleyball, it was Open, then A, then B, then recreational. I'm honestly not that good, so I did B and A as I was kind of right in between the two talent levels and I became very familiar with the rules that would bump me up into A after winning too many games in B, and then the rules that would bump me back down into B after I lost too many games in A. But guess what, I had tons of fun competing against a bunch of other guys that are roughly at my same talent level. Had I been force to play with the Open guys and the rec guys every time, I would have quit going. It's no fun to lose 25-5 and it's no fun to win 25-5.

 

Those two things alone would have me a lot more excited about tournament skiing.

[Chef23]

For me tournaments are as much about the people as the skiing. I always want to go and ski my best but I know I am not good enough to win. I am satisfied challenging myself to ski PBs without being concerned about winning. It is very different skiing a PB at a tournament vs in practice at home.

 

In the northeast because of location frequently tournaments include camping out at the site and hanginin out with my summer ski friends. That is as much a part of it as the skiing although skiing tournaments with my son got me started.

 

A friend of mine who has skied tournaments in multiple different regions indicated the hang out at the site for the weekend experience doesn't exist everywhere and that takes away from the fun at some of the sites.

 

In the interest of full disclosure we probably won't ski any tournaments this summer. I have been hurt but even if healthy we wouldn't have skied more than 1 because my son is focused on playing lacrosse in college and needs to play tournaments in the summer. He misses it though and we are hoping he can arrange his tournament schedule for next summer to put some water ski tournaments back on the calendar.

[escmanaze]

What if we made skiing more than just one final number at the end of the day? What if we started with "pool play" where you run 6 passes and each line length and speed determines how many points for that pass. Then pool play leads you into the seeding of the tournament where you run 2 passes at a time to see who gets more points on those two passes and keep doing that into different rounds of the tournament? If it's a double elimination tournament, then everybody is ensured at least 10 passes and we are close to the 12 number I mentioned above? People like tournaments, people like head to head competition. What if a run at 32 mph and 22 off were equal to a run at 34 mph and 15 off in the number of points it accumulated? I'm just thinking of some way to put in some variables so that the guy toward the bottom of the B division still might have a chance at strategizing how he wants to accumulate points to end up in the top 3.

[ntx]

I think we all need to get participation medals. That's it!!!!!

[Hallpass]

@ntx. Dislike in the most positive sense possible as I am sure you meant it. Participation medals are garbage. At some point there are winners and losers. That's the way the real world works. In my mind, medals for everyone is a reflection as to why so many won't compete - if I can't win, I'm not doing it. Total BS.

[ntx]

@Hallpass. Sorry you missed my sarcasm. Lol. In reading many of the posts, people are saying that they won't ski a tournament because they feel they are not competitive and can't win. My sarcastic statement was to give them a medal..... I agree. Medals for all is BS and is what has gotten us to where we are now as a society. Everyone wants to be rewarded before they even run the race. Another baller and I had this exact discussion tonight. With the exception of regional and national medals who cares??? I Guess the pan-am team and overall medals are ok too. State and local ones end up in the trunk of the car and forgotten about. Push for bigger goals.

[Bulldog]

@ntx and @Hallpass here is a classic movie scene regarding this topic.....

 

 

classic

[harddock]

There is not much being done in USAWS to excite newcomers. Having kids that enjoy competition but are not superstars AWSA is somewhat intimidating to them. INT offers a much more entry level program and that is where you attract newcomers to the sport but they being a small organization are even less promoted. At a local INT slalom event there were less than 30 entrants total and in the under 14 less than 6. Wakeboarding has take over somewhat with the " cool factor" and both media and boat mfgs seem to cater to them. Just look at a ski mag, it has wakeboard sections and ads. Now look at a wakeboard mag. Nothing about skiing, no ads. My daughter is a show skier, She practices hard, is a talented skier but there is not much recognition for the show people, especially in the eastern part of the country. Teams do compete but it is a very expensive proposition to host a tournament and there is only one. Television used to include waterskiing but I can't remember the last time any events were televised. Olympics refuse to include the sport because of the mechanicals necessary to move the skier. Add this the rising cost of equipment and proper training especially if you live in a seasonal community and maybe we are lucky to have what we have!

[Than_Bogan]

@Hallpass I don't think I'm authorized to give out pandas, so I instead award you this unofficial wristslap for totally missing @ntx's sarcasm.

 

/wristslap!

 

But seriously, I do find myself laughing a bit at all the "can't compete", "not good enough", "no chance to win." Having run -35 at almost every tournament site I've been to, I suspect most of those folks would consider me highly qualified. But my chance to beat Nate Smith, or even "just" Chad Scott, is way under 1%. Slalom is extremely measurable and you can't hide from someone being better than you.

 

I see the concern with volleyball -- that game is unplayable with uneven sides. But in slalom, the fact that Jamie Beauchesne is in the same tournament with me (which happened many times), has no impact on my skiing whatsoever. I enjoy the show, try to learn something, and then I compare my own skiing to my own standard, with maybe a quick glance at others that I know are around my level, mainly to gauge what the conditions were like overall to see how I should rate my own performance.

 

I do think people would have more fun if they could ski at a similar time to others around their ability, regardless of gender and age. But that can become difficult to schedule, because a lot of times the officials are of similar ability, so if they all ski at the same time, there is nobody to drive and officiate for them!

 

Of course, I have no desire to stick my head in the sand. Tournament skiing needs to adapt to the modern world. But I reserve the right to be a grumpy old man about it!!

[Hallpass]

@Than_Bogan. Yes, FNG. I guess I'll change my vote, which is probably a rookie mistake as well :)

 

 

[klindy]

It's is interesting that those of us that have been around for years and years understand (or at least appreciate) "competing with our own PB" or "doing our best regardless" etc. We've come to understand that until Regionals and Nationals (perhaps a state tournament) it's about our individual score and the ranking list and qualifying for the "big show" what lever that is to you.

 

Likewise we know it's about the social event, the "family" we've grown to know and enjoy spending time with. In fact at last weekends SC regionals I was talking to someone about how folks outside 'the community' don't understand how big of a deal it is. For example I've known now M/W 1&2 skiers since there were in B/G1. I've encouraged, coached, watched and otherwise treated them like they were my own kids. Likewise other parents have done the same with mine. It's automatic, no one had to ask me to "keep an eye out" or whatever it just happens. Lots of mutual respect. And that's just one example. Other examples include skiing related things like coaching, ski set up, celebrating and consoling after a performance.

 

Whereas those of us who haven't ski'd tournaments or somehow think they can't ski "good enough to win" or "can't compete" seem to enphasize the need for medals or highlight the competitive nature of the sport. To me those are are the people who haven't really engaged in where competitive waterskiing is today.

 

The current status of things may or may not be good. I'm concerned about the dwindling membership. I would like to see more real competition at our local tournaments. I'd also like to see more diverse "fun" events and activities for those who aren't 'fully engaged' just yet. All those things can happen within the current framework of AWSA.

 

It's a delicate balance of things really. AWSA is and should be dedicated to the advancement and support of COMPETITIVE Three Event Waterskiing. Other sport divisions should represent their specific discipline likewise. USAWS needs to focus on engaging the larger community of towed water sports including all our various sport divisions AND other recreational on the water activities. Sometimes we lose that focus.

[LLUSA]

Malibu Cup,

@aupatking No food? As you said there were very few spectators at the event, the skiers meals were catered, you cannot break even having food at a Regional Tournament, much less a qualifying event on Friday.

Porta Johns only 2;That was plenty for the number of people on site, sorry you thought walking 200-300 yards was to far.

I haven't seen you at any tournaments, maybe it's time you start doing for the sport, it's always easy to talk about what's wrong and never do nothing, just sayin

[ToddL]

I love to snow ski. My family takes a once-per-year trip most winters. We rent everything and spend about 3-5 days on the mountain. I like to rent the "demo"/advanced level of skis/boots because they simply perform better. We are part of the sport, but we are not competing and have no desire to do so. Still, I want to carve turns and go fast just like the competitive skiers. Some of my snow ski buddies will take runs through the NASTAR course when the mountain has one open to the public. Still, they don't compete.

 

I guess I am to NASTAR what these non-competing slalom skiers are to AWSA. If I think about my attitude regarding snow skiing, I am OK with this. I am not really interested in competing and I am happy with my level of involvement. I am having fun, but still trying to improve a little each trip up the mountain.

 

Does NASTAR need to do something to get me involved? Nope. I know it exists, but it's just not my thing. I suspect there are thousands of water skiers who could say the same thing about AWSA/USAWS. They want to have fun and get a little better each time they ski.

 

We should be OK with that fact. It is normal I suppose.

 

USAWS/AWSA and Local Tournament Organizers can simply continue to serve the active competitors as best as possible while ensuring that the entry points into the sport make sense and are appropriately attractive to those who show interest. If those elements are optimal, then the only thing left is awareness of the opportunities for entry.

 

Consider this party analogy... We can invite them all to our really fun, cool parties but some will have other plans or interests. RSVPs will will always be a fraction of the total invite list. Some will come once and decide it is not for them. The music, beverages, or dancing partners weren't exactly to their liking. Some will attend and like what they see, but not know how to do the dances or not yet know all of the inside jokes told among the regulars and not come back. I guess my point is that we simply can be welcoming and inviting to those who take a step to show interest. We simply meet them halfway - we both have to walk a little towards each other in order to connect.

[Horton]

To the folks that ski but do not ski tournaments:

 

This is not really what this thread WAS about. Whatever.

 

Tournaments are like crack. It is not for EVERYONE but it is like crack. Many of you that have only taken one hit or have never tried it do not see the appeal. For many of you => if you skied a few more tournaments you would understand the addiction. Some of you would still simply not like it. I get that.

 

I hate mayonnaise. My wife loves the stuff but I hate it. Nothing wrong with not liking it.

 

We have come to a place in the sport where there is less skier against skier competition. I think that is the result of the sport becoming more refined. We have come to a point where most of us ski to a pretty specific score day in and day out. When I am healthy I run between 4 @ 38 and 2 @ 39 every tournament. 2 @ 39 is an insane awesome day and 4 @ 38 or less is not so awesome. If you are 6 balls ahead of me or 12 balls behind me I expect it is the same. The appeal of most tournaments for me is to see if I can bang out a high score under official conditions. The ultimate crack is the idea of moving my tournament PB up by a ¼ ball. I know this offends a lot of Ballers but a practice PB does not mean as much. Even if I know the course is record spec and the boat path is perfect => unless I do it in a tournament it is not certified.

 

That is my crack. I will admit that my crack just might suck some the fun out of skiing. If you love to ski and my crack sounds terrible you just might have more fun your way. All I know is for me nothing compares a big tournament score.

[ToddL]

"USAWS/AWSA and Local Tournament Organizers can simply continue to serve the active competitors as best as possible while ensuring that the entry points into the sport make sense and are appropriately attractive to those who show interest. If those elements are optimal, then the only thing left is awareness of the opportunities for entry. "

 

So, I guess it comes down to the assessment of the above. Are the entry points into the sport sensible, appropriate, and attractive? Is there sufficient awareness about the competitive opportunities within our sport? What can be done to make the above better? How can USAWS facilitate this better? What can each of us do to make it better?

[MrJones]

Excellent metaphor John. Now where did I set my pipe down...

 

As for entry points. The move to more and more record tournaments is great for me, but not so great for any potential new skiers. As mentioned on the "How did you get addicted" thread, I started at a Beginner/Novice only tournament held by an area club. Flyers up in local boat shops and marinas. The experienced club skiers were out there on a Saturday teaching anyone who wanted to try the course. Tournament was on Sunday. I think there were 4 of us guys who skied together some who gave it at shot.

 

I agree with the comment about the splintering of those who are the water. Back then, everyone skied on public lakes. I haven't skied on a public lake in years, but when driving by them I see very few people on slalom skis. Given that, I don't think my example of getting started is very practical anymore.

[MattP]

I think that one thing that USAWS, the Ski companies and boat manufactures/dealers can do to get more people involved is with EVERY ski & wake related item include a pre stamped envelope and card for some kind of first time member grassroots membership for USAWS. Could even have a QR code and link it to all the info with a PayPal button.

 

I attended pro events and bought ski equipment long before I knew how to access tournaments or that USAWS was actually a thing. I knew a little about INT but there was no skiing events in my state. If a card came with any of my ski equipment that said send USAWS $35 to be a grassroots member and they would send back a T-Shirt, stickers, the basic tournament rules, how to contact local clubs. a region tournament guide and how to register for your first tournament I would have been involved in this side of the sport 10 years earlier! Possibly comp a practice set the day before their first tournament or first state championships.

 

I have talked to USAWS about this idea multiple times and at one point I thought it was going to go into action, but it didn't.

 

There is 1 free idea. Implementation would not be terribly difficult. If USAWS wants more members and new active members they need to be marketing to those that are not already involved.

[Ilivetoski]

We had this discussion one day at my lake. My dad brought up a good point. He said when he was in college, and they were throwing a party they had to tell people about it. If they didn't get the word out no one would show up. That is true with anything and people don't know when and where waterski tournaments are

[ToddL]

To those who worry about not being good enough to compete, here are some current stats.

I took 12 month ranking lists for B1 through M5. From that data, I made the following observations:

• There are 1752 skiers with a ranking score.

• 42% of those skiers have a ranking score at 22 off or longer/slower.
  • (FYI - 30% are less than max speed.)

• 40% of those skier have a ranking score in the middle (28 off through 35 off range).

• 18% of those skiers have a ranking score at 38 off or shorter.

Note: a skier's ranking score is their top performances averaged together and excludes their bottom performances.

 

So, if you are a non-competitive slalom skier with a typical score below 28 off, just know that there are over 700 competitive skiers who are in that same skill level.

 

[Hallpass]

@Mattp. I had to give up golf, several years back, but when I was golfing, that was a technique used in the golf industry. First year membership was free to the USGA, or NCGA. Offer usually through a magazine or equipment purchase. Memberships usually offered some discounts at courses, or on gear. It all tied together in a big circle. Manufacturers helped association helped courses and around the horn. Of course, the NCGA (In NorCal) was also the keeper of the handicap system, and, except for a scramble, you can't really play in any golf tourney without a handicap. That might play with some of the handicaps suggestions that have come up.

 

It's not a simple equation, but membership gets qualified lead or contacts. Renewal membership gets funding. Funding allows for more communication, publications. Membership, communication, advertising attracts the manufacturers, and so on.

 

Still doesn't solve the problem of making the competitions more enticing, or getting the membership to compete, but it is a method to build the machinery to make it happen.

[aupatking]

@LLUSA I was specifically saying that I wasn't picking on you. You did a fantastic job, and held a wonderful event. I started skiing again 3 years ago, after 20 years of not skiing. I competed in 1 tournament the first year, and broke my leg getting ready for the first tournament of the year, last year. Just in the past 2 months been back on the course. I'll be in tournaments, and would love to help. I came to your place for regionals, as a spectator, 2 years ago and that was another great event.

It was nothing against you, there was just no food. The toilet distance didn't matter to me, but I had to walk through CP's and someone else's RV parking. Just felt like I was in their personal space.

PM me and I'll give you my number. I'd be happy to help with any event. In any capacity

[Booze]

@Jody_Seal..... big ditto on your item #2.

[Sean]

@LLUSA That's the kind of attitude I see flaunted that makes me shy away from going to someone's private lake with cliquey groups for a tournament where I won't ski much.

 

Free advice may be easier to talk about than to actually do, but it's still a gift that didn't have to be offered in the first place.

 

As far as the no food goes, if the event was catered, why not order a little extra food next time for spectators to purchase? He mentioned the portajohns could be located in a more central spot, don't take the tip if you don't like it.

[Jody_Seal]

@Sean

Hi Sean if you have never been to LLUSA for any event you need to go their! For a Normal tournament event this site is incredible, and even better for a upscale regional or pro level event. First class and it is all about the skier. Especially when the skier is on the water. Before you go about criticizing how they go about their tournament business you might need to take a look at the layout and the many years of experience that organization has in putting on tournaments. However you might be right with the attitude thing so maybe you might want to shy away from good old southern hospitality and their dedication to the sport of three event waterskiing at it's best!

 

 

[Sean]

Yeah I've never been there, and it could very well be the best tournament ever ran, I wouldn't know (but I don't see how it could get better than Great Plains Conference at the Water's Edge...off topic). I was in no way criticizing the tournament, just criticizing the reaction to some free advice. Nothing is ever perfect, there is always room for improvement. I'm sure everyone involved knows what they're doing and doesn't need any free advice, but that's not where this thread's been going.

[Chad_Scott]

Lyman had nothing to do with the planning of the event or the concessions available at the event To the contrary, Lyman opened up his own place and allowed the Pro Water Ski Tour LLC free use of his facilities to host the qualifier. Not only did a guy that owns, as someone said a private lake for cliquey groups, not make a nickel on the use of his lake. Lyman also provided several of his ski club members to help and run the event. Now if we are talking about the state of waterskiing, if everyone was as unselfish as Mr. Hardy and went out of their wayas he did to promote waterskiing and professional waterskiing then we would actually get some where with more events like these. The tournament at Lyman's was scheduled to be a two round qualifier which honestly we did not expect many spectators. That was the purpose for the web cast. The crowd of spectators expected was expected for the show which was to take place in downtown Tuscaloosa. There were plenty of food and beer vendors on site for the event. As one of the people that puts on these events, we have to operate within a budget. Food vendors want guarantees (of sales) to come out and set up for an event. Our goal is to put as much money in the pockets of these professional athletes while running a first class event. While we do appreciate anyone who attended please bear in mind that we were hosting a first year event with a limited budget. Most two round record tournaments do not normally supply food and concessions. Hopefully as this event grows and continues we will be able to increase the things that are available to spectators at both event sites. The only post that should be said regarding Lyman or Lyman land USA is thank you for allowing us to invade your home, your space and your lake for hosting the event.

 

[dbski]

I'll echo that Lyman should only be thanked for his support of the Malibu cup. It is an amazing site and the skiing reflected that. As far as no vendors being there, what am I, chopped liver? I was there the whole day, and while not many were in attendance, I talked to a bunch of wonderful people. I even made a few sales which made watching the great skiing even better!

[Horton]

wondering if I need move this to the classic thread category.