L5-S1

[EFW]

Hey guys - I've used the search on here and pretty much see what everyone has said about a micro discectomy and skiing. The leg weakness part of the equation - how did you guys make out on that part? I went from having mind searing pain ( please someone shoot me ! ) to right now ---ZERO---. Except the extreme weakness and numbness, I can do everything. I signed the consent yesterday. Dr. tells me I will have instant relief and will be able to do everything and anything I've ever done.

Do you feel on the weakness front you have returned to your prior levels of strength and feeling?

thanks

[TWB]

My situation is different but, the time factor might be similar. I blew a disc in my back two years ago. The fluid from the disc impinged on my sciatic nerve causing intense pain and numbness in my leg and foot. I understand when you say "someone shoot me". It was that bad. When the fluid retreated, the pain went away. That took a week to happen. The numbness in the leg caused me to lose some strength and control of my calf muscle. That caused a condition called "foot drop". I sounded like a horse when I walked. I did have an MRI, and there was very little bulging. The doc said I was not a candidate for surgery and that I would be back to 90% if not 100% within six months, and that's almost exactly how long it took. It takes time for the nerve to recover.

 

There are times when I wish I was a candidate for surgery and someday, I might be. The reality is, when I keep my core strength up, I have have zero back problems. When, my core gets weak, the back pain returns.

[DaveD]

When @TWB says keep your core strength up, he's not talking about doing a few sit-ups and planks every day. I do core workouts three times a week that take around an hour to do.

[MrJones]

I have had a L5-S1 micro and I'm a PT. You will be fine as far as strength. Time to full return of strength depends on how long the nerve has been compressed, and/or how much pain avoidance of use you have. I didn't realize how much I had been favoring my left lower extremity until post surgery and I was rehabbing myself. As far as numbness. I went into surgery with pain in my leg and came out with no pain, but a stripe of decreased sensation from glute down to my lateral foot/toes. The surgeon said that it might take a few weeks for the numbness to go away. It's been 9 years and it's still numb. NBD. I'll trade numb for pain any day.

 

I will respectfully say that you do not have to do an hour of core. You can do a very decent core workout in 10 minutes. If you have an hour that's awesome. I don't have that. I typically do core as part of my other workouts 2-3x per week. Post op, more frequent and short sessions are likely better.

 

As far as doing everything you used to do. Well sure... to a point. The stuff I used to do is part of what lead to the initial herniation, so it's wise to learn what is stressful on disc and avoid it. I strongly recommend you read Stewart McGill's "Low Back Disorders" to educate yourself. He is a biomechanics guy, but he does a good job of explaining how disc are put under stress in understandable terms.

 

Besides that, use your common sense. If you are doing a workout and you hurt after, it's too much. I find that super motivated people sometimes are actually doing too much post op and causing pain. I did it myself. 6 months post op I was ripped... and hurting. Started doing some of the "whimpy" exercises I gave my patients and guess what, I felt better!

 

Clinically, I try to educated people in how to avoid stressing the disc. Then I give them a simple group of "core" (hate that term really) exercise along with hip flexibility stretches. You'll be fine. Good luck.

[EFW]

At a 150#s I am obviously not Mr. Universe, on the other hand I'm by no means your avg. 57yr.old. You go your whole life taking care of yourself and it's like " why bother? " I don't know if I ever want to grab the barbells again. From the ER to the GP ( Osteo )the next week my GP decides he's going to do some OMT on me. I'm not blaming him but from there on my strength started to leave. When the neuro found out he was not impressed. Just shook his head.

For the moment until surgery he says to just keep it up- Situps, benchpress, Inversion table (don't you love it -I can still remember when Roger Teeter use to write tech articles for Waterski mag. when he worked for EP. ) Never been on workmen's comp a day in my life until now. The best thing about this news group or whatever you want to call it is the information you can get relative to your needs. I will order Mcgills book now.

John please don't get mad at me.

This is from Paul Jager. ( I'm sorry he's a friend of mine ) He sent it to me yesterday.

youtu.be/48kmZ2d1c20

But I get done watching this and I am thinking to myself how I know 3 other really good skiers besides myself --RIGHT NOW-- that also have back problems. I think that they were not injured from skiing for their present back problems but isn't this a little more than circumspect when all of us are skiers. You do have to wonder about that.

[spicoli]

I had it back in 93 It was a real new oper. But man I was a new man was back skiing but weak in 6 mths. Still sking 5 days week at 57 .kèep in mind everyone diff. But I was like u shoot me at 2 in the morning .best thing I ever did. Some people respond different and just give up and whine.

[MikeT]

Had L 4-5 discectomy in 1999. extreme pain a week before operation when I changed positions. Didn't have leg weakness really. Some numbness put pain down the leg and lower back. Had microsurgery. Walked out of hospital with small steps the next day. Snow skied in 6 weeks, easily and waterskied in 6 months. Good luck, man

 

[Chef23]

Had a L5/S1 micro discectomy a few years ago in October and was good to snow ski by Christmas and ski in April. It worked good for me.

[TWB]

I still do the same P90X ab ripper exercises after my regular strength training workouts in the off season. It's 15 minutes every other day. So, really it's three days a week, and it keeps my core strong.

[ktm300]

* Crunches shorten the rectus abdominus.

* The lumbar spine has only 3 degrees max rotation per segment while the thoracic spine has up to 7 degrees rotation per segment.

* Shoulders that round forward or have some C shape to them, greatly limit thoracic rotation.

 

The shortening of rectus abdominus can lead to the C shaped shoulders to some extent. When RA shortens, it flattens the lordotic curve in the low back which greatly weakens it as so much strength derives from the structure of the curve. If the shoulders are rounded and greatly limiting thoracic rotation, then the rotational limits are exceeded in the low back. The low back is now flatter, weaker and subjected to rotational forces that exceed natural limits. If we add to this a lack of hip mobility and short hamstrings the low back is doomed. The rotation is to be derived from the hips and thoracic spine not lumbar.

The lumbar spine needs to be trained for stability not movement. Planks, side planks, walking while carrying one kettlebell overhead etc. can provide superior core training.

 

[EFW]

@ktm300 is that you talking or did you copy and paste? just wondering. Sounds good

[AkBob]

@KTM300 Thanks for great concise post. Most skiers seem to be kinda "C" shaped in Thoracic and many have low back issues. Maybe we now know why. Thanks again

[slvrbulit]

I had the surgery a few years ago. It took a while before I felt any relief from the pain. PT is a must! so make sure you do it. Started skiing again last year after not skiing for a whole year and have been fine this year.

[ktm300]

@EFW I did write it. However, there is not an original thought in it. When I hurt my back, I researched a lot. Read two of the McGill books and lots of other info. The above is my distillation of the information into something hopefully useful and actionable by skiers. The absolute best at putting the info into an actionable format is Mike Robertson. Has a masters degree in biomechanics. Ignore the hokey marketing, the guy is really knowledgeable. Not promoting it; just citing it as my main source of what I believe to be great information.

http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/core-fitness/

 

[Nautibynature]

I have been dealing with some low back pain since Memorial Day weekend. Went to the doctor and was prescribed PT. After a month of that I had an xray and mri this morning. Found out I have Degenerative Disk Disease and got an injection. Look at L4,L5 and L5, S1. No more white.

 

 

[FLeboeuf]

@ktm300 I totally agree with you. I'll add that tight hip flexor muscles can be one of the main causes for low back pain too. It was in my case. I've experiened low back pain waterskiing every set until 2 years ago. I had a hard time doing two sets in one day, and could not go for more than 3 days in a row. I saw a chiro. She cracked my back with some technique and it did bring relief. I was able to do that technique on myself after ski sets and the pain diminished but immediately came back when I got back on my ski. I did some research and read that hip flexors can get really tight by sitting for long periods of time, which is my case because of my job. what I found is myofascial release techniques that I can do myself, to release and loosen those muscles up. Since I started doing those techniques before each set I've had no more pain. I' ve skied 5 days in a row 3 sets a day low back pain free. Other muscles were sore though but not my low back. Basically I use a lacrosse ball and a foam roller to put pressure and massage my hip flexors. Works extremely well for me. Stretching is good too but I find it doesn't loosen up my hip flexors enough compared to myofascial release.

[EFW]

It's incredible- I get more information from you guys than I do the Dr. - " You have a poor back"

Really? like no shit- what do you think the ambulance just brought me here for. The rumble roller just showed up after another friends advice. What would I do w/o friends.?

[EFW]

@Nautibynature Good luck . The wonderful MRI