Baller Bill22 Posted February 5, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 There is already a discussion on this topic but the title is not too descriptive. Link here Currently it is illegal to ski on Chickahominy lake in New Kent County, VA. This is a public lake. Back in 1974 one of the county board members who owns a camp ground on the lake and rents fishing boats, got a law passed to ban skiing. This Monday at 6:00pm the board is having a meeting to hear the public speak on this matter. I have called USA Waterski and got the phone number of the person who is in charge of water way advocacy. I left him a message today. One argument against skiing was that the lake is too small (1230 acres). I plan to print some google maps screenshots of much smaller private ski lakes to disprove this argument. Anyone who has been through similar issues before have any tips? CLICK HERE TO SIGN THE PETITION! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 If you are in Virginia and there is anyway possible please try to be at the meeting. We need more water skiers than bass fishermen to show up. Chickahominy lake is an awesome place to ski and we really need to get this changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted February 5, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 I am not sure if this helps you but I live on a lake in Massachusetts that is a public lake comprised of 3 connected ponds that is 625 acres total (each pond is about 200 acres) and fishing and skiing coexist nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarditup Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Get an overlay of the slalom course and place it over the lake. You can show how many "official" slalom courses can fit in the lake to show it is plenty big enough. If you can, figure out how many you can put in the lake and report that the lake is "big enough to have 50 slalom courses in it at one time." Sometimes absurdity makes the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rodltg2 Posted February 5, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 I would not bring up " slalom course " at all at that meeting. that opens up a whole other can of worms. I suggest getting the ski ban lifted before any mention of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 @Chef23 Yes, I can use that as a good example. What is the name of the lake? @Nautibynature any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 @rodltg2 I agree 100%. We should not mention that we want to put a course in but could say how many would fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted February 5, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 Don't forget to use the Google Earth Ski site resource. You can take screen shots and do the super impose trick over the lake in question... Just make sure you use a common zoom scale for each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted February 5, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 Take a moment to think about how this might play out: Ban on Wake sports vs. water skiing. Not sure that this is a good strategy, but if the arguments against towed water sports are heavily targeting the disruption and damage of wake sports; then maybe you can offer to help get the revised ordinance to be written in such a way that only traditional water skiing is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller klindy Posted February 5, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 I personally think this should be one of the very top priorities for USA Waterski! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted February 5, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 Possible language: "Towed water sport boats are allowed for sports where the boat's hull or wake is not designed or enhanced in such a way to create a larger wake, as typically used in wake boarding, wake skating, or wake surfing." Or something like: "Boats designed, modified or marketed as optimized for wake sport usage will not be allowed." Side comment - I know and fully agree that our sport is dependent upon the sale of wake sport boats. I also recognize that the comments above echo the "us" vs. "them" mentality. I am just also pointing out that the potential opposition faced at @Bill22's lake might be more due to perceptions of wake sports impact. The non-skiing population may not even think about segmenting towed water sports into sub groups such that some groups might be allowable while others limited. PS: Wake surfing is a freaking blast! If you haven't done it, you're missing out. (Just don't do it on my lake. LOL!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 @klindy I am kicking myself for not calling USA waterski two months ago. I am not sure how much help they can be but I should have given them more advanced notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted February 5, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 "USA Water Ski recommends that a competition ski lake be approx X feet wide and Y feet long for safe and optimal skiing. By those standards, Chickahominy Lake is Z times bigger than the recommendation." See, no mention of courses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 Click here to sign the petition. Even if you do not live in Virginia or do not live in the USA. If you love (or like) water skiing PLEASE sign our petition to bring water skiing back to Chickahominy lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautibynature Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Here is the latest newspaper article. LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted February 5, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted February 5, 2016 A "typical" ski lake with a slalom course is 2000 feet +/- x 200, or about 10 acres. If your lake is 1230 acres, you have enough room for about 123 people to ski safely at once (although after the first pass everone would have pretty crappy conditions and it would go down hill from there...). Said differently, a water skier skiing in a 2000x 200 area uses .008 of the total area of your lake. If skiing is limited to one area and one skier at a time, then the idea that you are taking over the whole lake is easily disproved. I ran a tournament on a non-motorboat public lake a couple summers ago. There were two types of people that opposed the tournament. The first group thought that the boats would be noisy, the wakes would cause erosion, gas would be spilled in the water and no one else would be able to use the lake while we skied. After the tournament, this group conceded that none of those fears were realized. The second group just thought that the activity was inappropriate for the lake, notwithstanding that a prior Nationals and Regionals were held there along with probably 30 to 40 other tournaments. This group can't be reasoned or argued with because they have a philosophical position that can't be overcome by facts. USAWS has a lengthy document that provides a lot of data on noise, erosion, etc. I found it pretty helpful, but out-dated in some respects. Her's the link: LINK Good luck, You are doing God's work... Well, sort of. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 5, 2016 @MattP please edit the links before Horton throws the pandas down. I did my links correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seks69 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Error loading petition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 6, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 6, 2016 @seks69 the link is working on my cell. Do you have a Facebook account? I posted the link at the "waterski hub" FB page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edbrazil Posted February 6, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 6, 2016 Wonder if the ban includes wakeboarding, wake surfing, or barefooting? After all, they are not water skiing! Lake Holly in VA has hosted many tournaments, including one World SL record. It is a relatively small lake. There's Picture Lake in Petersburg; probably not in use now. 1973 Nationals there had a whole crop of US National records. Those older sites and newer ones could be found on Google Earth, and printed out, maybe side-by-side to a view of Chickahominy, at the same scale. Would be interesting if you could prove that the law was passed only because of one person's influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 6, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 6, 2016 @Edbrazil thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 6, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 6, 2016 Come on BOS! You can't get us even 100 or 200 signatures on the petition?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ThePantsManCan Posted February 6, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 6, 2016 Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Murrski Posted February 6, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 6, 2016 Signed! Good luck @Bill22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 6, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 6, 2016 did I say "all of the cool kids share the link to the petition on Facebook" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Marco Posted February 6, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 6, 2016 Signed also. I'll be rooting for the Bronco's to win tomorrow and for you to win on Monday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gsm_peter Posted February 7, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 7, 2016 Done You get support from Sweden as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautibynature Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I put this on the Mastercraft forum, can someone get it on the nautique, Malibu, centurion forums as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Orlando76 Posted February 7, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 7, 2016 I signed. I was pretty disappointed by the number of signatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautibynature Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I have been disappointed at the lack of interest in this issue from national organizations that claim to offer assistance in situations such as these. It seems that if it doesn't involve tournament skiing or it doesn't have a direct impact on them, folks just aren't interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted February 7, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 7, 2016 @Nautibynature You are fighting a local ordinance. What significance do signatures from out of state carry? You need local signatures for a local vote. It's not that we don't care, we do but we really have no dog in this fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 8, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 We made it to 200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautibynature Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 It is public water, you can come here from anywhere in the world and use the lake. You do not have to be a county resident. I think it would have been beneficial to have some top people from national organizations call the supervisors and have a discussion. Let them know that folks on the national level are watching what they do with this. I personally don't think it matters how many people sign a petition. Public water is public water and this ordinance has no foundation or purpose. It's very existence represents small town good ole boy politics, the arrogance displayed by the obvious conflict of interests is unbelievable. I didn't start the petition, but I will support it. It might make a difference to one of the supervisors, it might not. When we started this back in July, several people in the county laughed and told us this issue would never see a public hearing. They are not laughing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 Signed, I would support any waterski site even if it's across the world and I would probably never ski there. Greetings from Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 FWIW, the decline of public water skiing is a direct cause of the decline of competition water skiing. Family combo skiing leads to family slalom skiing, which expands the audience and interest in competitive skiing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 You might get more eyes if this wasn't in the Members Only forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 Looking at the background info it appears that it is currently illegal to ski on only one side of the lake? Interesting that they didn't just pass a horsepower limit on the lake, that is what they do around here on lakes that are designated as DNR fisheries or lakes that are small and primarily used for fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted February 8, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted February 8, 2016 @oldjeep, I don't think they would pass a horsepower limit. Those dual 300 horsepower motors on the bass boats wouldn't be allowed. And, that would serious impede their efforts to get to the right fishing spot in under 3 seconds. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Orlando76 Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 My first thought was I'm in FL what difference do I make? In reality not much but as I do tow my boat to VA twice a year just to ski, and drive there a dozen times a year. I could very easily choose to spend my time in New Kenty County if they could fit my interest (skiing). My other thought to this which I'm sorry if it's a thread jack but recently USWSA had a questionnaire (maybe it was on here) about what they could do to increase membership etc. I'm not a member as there doesn't appear to be an advantage for me to be a member, I'm already well insured without them and doubt they would help me on establishing a ski course on my local chain or any other amateur skiing in VA trying to water ski with their family on their local lake. I challenge an organization to stand up to this ordinance, follow through and fight it. In return, I will sign me and family up for a membership as I'm sure others would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 I'll be the contrarian here - what benefit would it be to USWA to challenge a 37 year old law that effects 1/2 of one lake in Virginia? And what standing would they have to even be involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Orlando76 Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 Well, none. But USWA is a business... Looking for members which is $$. What benefit does the amateur skier have to join? Now do some lobbying to one or two county commissioners or whatever it takes. NRA does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Niles Taylor Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 signed #234 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiinxs Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 I signed the petition and listed the address of my 2,000' lake as a reference (can be viewed on Google Earth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted February 8, 2016 Supporting Member Share Posted February 8, 2016 @oldjeep The benefit part is clear: Without public lake skiing, the end of tournament skiing is likely to follow shortly. As to standing, I have no clue. But since when did legal standing stop good lobbyists? I am one who believes USAWS's main purpose should be lobbying. If not, then it should be a razor-thin official sanctioning body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller PatM Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 I ski on a public lake. The lake is 73 acres. I wouldn't know what to do with all that extra lake. :# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 I am of the belief that part of what USAWS should be doing is advocating for the membership. Finding and maintaining access to public water ski sites should be part of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller wilecoyote Posted February 8, 2016 Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 I signed, and I'm in Canada. It's one thing to have HP limits or no motors at all, but no towed water sports on a lake that allows any HP? Like you said that just smacks of self interest politics. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 8, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 8, 2016 Sorry I have not been able to respond to questions or comments it's been a very busy day. I'm on the way to the meeting now and I hope all goes well. @Chef23 we put this in the members only area because we did not want some local newspaper to find it and then ask about a course. If the older members on the board hear anything about a course it would kill our chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 9, 2016 The board is still taking comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted February 9, 2016 Thanks for all the support. We lost. Old money still owns New Kent, VA. We will still be swerving on the lake but we will be on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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