suggestions on dumping the cheater rope

[Ski_Dad]

Hi Guys, been on slalom 3 years and I'm embarrassed to say that I still use a deep-v handle. I want to ween myself from it but have hesitated b/c of my lower back. Any suggestions on technique change if any. My boy did it on 1st try last night like it was nothing - but he is only 110 lbs - ha ha

 

 

 

[lcgordon]

Put the rope in between your legs. So if your LFF put the rope on the left side of the ski. Then put your ski sideways so that the tip is at say 10 or 11 oclock. Then when the boat pulls stay seated and climb out in that same direction. Dont let your ski go straight. It can fall into the rope. If your RFF its exactly the opposite.

[Chef23]

@lcgordon I think you have this backwards. As a LFF skier the rope is to the right of the ski not the left. I have one fried that gets up the way you are saying and while he can run the course it seems like every deep water start is an adventure.

[lcgordon]

Oh yeah typed that wrong. Sorry the other part is right tho

[JordanOz]

As someone who is definitely newish to the sport compared to everyone else around here, I went through this at the start of the Aussie summer season just been (October last year). So hopefully I can give you some good info on this. This is what worked for me.

 

I'm left foot forward, so the ski tip goes on the left side of the rope. Usual drill, knees to chest and elbows outside of knees. Before rope goes tight and if you have both feet in to start, ski can be at 10 or 11 o'clock (1 or 2 for RFF) to help keep your balance whilst floating in the water. Sometimes if you find yourself tipping to one side while floating when both feet are in (if you're a 2 foot starter), I find I just tip my head back in the water and look at the sky for a couple of seconds and that settles it.

 

When you tell the driver to go, forget about the rope not having a long V. Put the ski to 11 o'clock (or 1). As you start to move, push forward with the ball of your front foot in the direction of the boat. This will straighten the ski for you. MAKE SURE you don't push your whole foot forward (common with trying to stand up too early) as that will make the ski push against the water, and you'll be pushing a wall. That pressure will also make the handle get ripped of your hands.

 

So, while pushing the ball of your foot forward, simultaneously bring your back foot under you. This action should subconsciously make your back heel come up which combined with pushing the ball of your front foot forward will help the ski flatten out and get on top of the water. Be sure to keep your back knee in against your front knee, otherwise you may lose your balance and it may also catch the water and bring you down. Then, just stand up as usual once you're on top of the water.

 

I realise I've just exposed myself as the noob I am, but I don't care. This is a great sport and I am addicted. Haha. But, these are the tips that the great people at my club gave me, and they got me from not being able to get out of the water at all, to deep water long V and then short V within a couple of short months, and I was 113kgs then. Since then, I've probably missed 2 starts in the last 50. So if I can do it mate, you can. Get yourself some Radar Vice gloves too, it will help with learning.

 

Best of luck.

[Fast351]

I get up weird (so people tell me) but this works for me, it might work for you.

 

I have the rope on the wrong side of the ski. (LFF, rope on left). What works for me are three things:

 

1) I have the driver leave the boat idling in gear after slacking out the rope. This allows a little pressure on the ski, and lets me get it stable before having the driver hit it out of the hole. A lot of people think it's weird, but it works for me.

 

2) Get your ass on the ski when you start. This flattens out the ski and makes it easier to generate lift when the boat starts to apply pressure.

 

3) When the ski starts to feel like it's generating enough lift to support you, kick your rear foot down, put your chin to your chest, and exhale through your nose mouth closed. The last two things will keep you from getting a face full of water and keep the water out of your nose.

 

Like I said, unconventional, but it works for me...

 

 

[BraceMaker]

I personally don't like to get crunched on the ski, eyes up at the pylon, arms straight back foot near your butt. Knees bent.

 

Almost immediately as the pull comes on start moving hips forward, very little speed needed to be on top of the ski.

 

In this way my back doesn't get bent, my face doesn't get wet, and you can react to a hard or soft pull accordingly. Hard you are up soft you just keep advancing the hips up and wait.

[Ski_Dad]

thanks guys for all the advice - I'll give it a go as soon as my arms are back to normal :)

[OldboyII]

Year ago or so, somebody clever (sorry do not remember who) told on this forum:

Waterstart is an exercise of relaxation - the only place where you apply the force is your fingers.

I took it serious and since then start is the easiest part of skiing for me.

 

/edited/

 

[Ski_Dad]

Hi Guys, just an update - I got up twice Saturday without my cheater rope. They guy on the Prostar 197 said I "needed" to use his rope - ha ha. Anyhow i had tried a 4-5 times this summer with no luck - i tried the 10 or 11 o'clock thing and kept falling to the side.

 

This week I put the ski strait and put both hands palm down. I think the hand position was throwing me as I was coming up baseball grip. I dunno.

 

Small victory for some, but I'll take it ! Now I gotta get a real handle.

 

the handle i used was a 13" with an Arc in it.

[BrennanKMN]

Good work! Now just do that a million times until it becomes muscle memory! :p

 

I always struggle trying to help new skiers get up on one. It is so second nature to me I don't even really know how to describe what I am doing. I guess you get good at it when you get out of the water 500+ times in a season.

 

I would agree on the baseball grip. Get out with both palms down and then switch grips after you are up. Much easier I believe.

[paco]

I am just like @Fast351 in terms of rope position . Ether way, make sure your shoulders are square to the boat. I drag a foot, personally I think it's effortless compared to both feet in. You can prop your chest on front knee, arms straight and hang on. I think a good exercise is have the driver pull you at idle speed. You really shouldn't be fighting it, once you can handle this part, the rest is cake.

[gregy]

I start with palms down, rear foot in. Also use a 13" handle, 1.0" diameter, bent. I dumped the cheater handle when I was 7, 50 now so, yea don't really think about much.

[wtrskior]

I love talking to newer skiers about the start. I tell them that even running short line I think about my start every pass. Much of its ingrained muscle memory now but I still think about what I need to do to get pulled out of the water smoothly. Losing weight and getting a stronger core definitely helps.

[OldboyII]

Water start is like Love - it comes and go.

You fight for it - and it does not come.

You do not think about it - and it finds you.

;)

[scorban2]

@Fast351 I get up the same 'wrong' way. The way I see it, with my LFF, if I moved my feet apart to the normal standing position the tip of the ski would go to the left. Therefore, I figured that having the rope on the left side of the ski would help keep it straight and stabilize it.

 

The most important thing that seems to help people when teaching them is keeping the ski as flat as possible, as you don't have to work as much to keep it straight when you're not plowing water with it straight in front of you.

[MrJones]

I'm a lefty and learned with the rope on the left. As it comes tight you can actually lean the ski against the stiff rope until you get to vertical enough position that they move away from each other.

 

It's a habit you will have to unlearn after a while or you will fray ropes and wear the ski a bit where it rubs. I still keep it on the left side, but don't lean on it. Not sure I've ever even tried to get up with it on the right side.

[Ski_Dad]

I'm looking at these handles - https://connellyskis.com/category/connelly_pro_tour_handles

 

The thing that caught my eye is that they float. Our lake is 15-20 feet in most spots and my kids ski too. Just free skiing at 15 off

 

do you think there is an advantage to the Elliptical diameter bar (.96x1.15) (helps you hold on better ?)

[paco]

This is what I have https://goo.gl/913Lwy except mine also has a radius

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@Mitzysman I was given a hand-me-down handle/rope from a friend who sold his boat and was happy to discover that the handle floats. I use it for all kids and even adults who are not experienced skiers since they tend to not be as conscious of getting the rope and letting it slide through their hands until the handle reaches them. A floating handle seems to make it easier for those less experienced behind a boat. However, I think the high quality, stronger handles do not float.

[BraceMaker]

Pipe insulation for 3/8" copper does pretty well just ahead of the V if you want to keep a handle on the surface.

[gregy]

Those Connelly handles look nice. I didn't know they sold handles.

[ScottScott]

Master line makes a floating handle. And some of the "non pro" makers like airhead make floating handles that are good for the kids and less serious skiers.

[OldboyII]

@Mitzysman since you are already 3 years in skiing you may try that amazing start which you see on competitions - easy look & really fast.

Ask driver to start full throttle. It sounds scary but you have nothing to lose - if you will not manage, you simply return to your favorite speed of start.

You will be really impressed how easy and fast you will be on the water.

All what you will need is to get into proper start position with knee to chest and say "go!".

The crucial point is - you, your ski and the boat must be strictly aligned and immediately with start you push hips forward. All you do is Aligned and Hips forward.

We, amateurs are in a kind of vicious circle - drivers see us and never offer fast start, so we may even do not know what it is.

 

[BrennanKMN]

I caution a 'full throttle' start if you are skiing with any kind of inboard boat. That is a recipe for being hurt or popping the handle. A firm smooth pull up is a better option in my opinion.

[Ski_Dad]

i hear ya guys. We drop the hammer on my outboard boat - but it is only 125 hp and I have a 4 second pull to get up - which i think is pretty good for the 'ol girl. On my friends inboard boats i ask for a gentle pull and I'm up in 2 seconds.

[Ski_Dad]

just updating an old thread - i got a Masterline carbon floating handle recently - it's an odd diameter (1.045) but I really like it - it's amazing what a good handle does.

[dhofert]

I just notice after reading it all that this is pretty old. Anyways this is my first year without the cheater rope. Been having about 75% success. Really improved after watching the pros start at the Swiss tourney. They seemed to zoom on them on the starts and I focused on that. Biggest thing I ha e changed is keeping more ski in the water, only the tip out of the water, and put my hands in the water with arms bent instead of straight arm out of the water. This seems to out less stress on my shoulders and I actually felt more relaxed on my starts.