Scheduling of M/W 1-2 Divisions/Events at Tournaments

[unksskis]

Without sounding like whining, why is it so popular and common to schedule M1-2 and W1-2 first thing in the mornings? Is there a logic or reasoning to this?

 

This is the same demographic many seem focused on attracting and maintaining from Collegiate skiing. I'm not saying they should never be scheduled first thing, but to have it year after year at large tournaments like Regionals, it is detrimental to the tournament attendance. I'm just asking that unless there is actual logic and reasoning in doing so, may we consider not always scheduling M1-2/W1-2 first thing in the morning. It's not just about them socializing and sleeping in, this demographic is more likely trying to drive in the morning of, or staying farther away to save money. Some understanding and accommodating could really help attract and maintain, and in the long run help attendance and make tournaments a little more fun.

[skiinxs]

Actually, around me, it is usually B123, G123 first, which is probably worse than M1-2 when be bring our boats to the tournament full of fuel, especially those with huge tanks like the 40 gallons in the Malibu. That is 237 to 257 pounds of fuel sitting right at the back of the boat pulling the first 15.5mph B1 or G1 skier off the dock. Also not the greatest impression to make them want to come back for more!

[The_MS]

What is the problem? They should also be there to judge and dock start if needed.

[lantley]

@unksskis I agree with your idea. It seems like scheduling pro divisions later in the day would improve attendance (for you official tournament planners out there, this means more MONEY can be made). I am just a skier and don't have the authority to actually change this, but I am letting people know that I agree.

 

Perhaps there is a reason we aren't aware of that explains the current setup? Maybe it is so the pros can ski several rounds a day in some scenarios? Hopefully some forum members with tournament planning experience will chime in... (EDIT: it seems they have already and I typed too long)

[MISkier]

I would think that most would prefer the usually superior morning conditions (temperature not withstanding) to those at midday or the afternoon.

[MrJones]

In truth, it's probably because the people setting the schedule, doing the judging, etc. are in the older age divisions and don't like to ski early.

 

I have younger kids and around here they are usually first out. We will be leaving home at about 5:45 the morning of Regionals to get there for them. Of course my wife, who is W3, skis first event 7:30 the next morning so it goes both ways.

[MillerTime38]

@unksskis they do it so we do not have to be on the dock with all the old men (34 mph) and listen to them complain about their muscle and body aches and listen to them tell us stories about how back in their day and how they use to run 38 off on a wooden ski

[Mateo_Vargas]

No, we do it so you can start drinking at noon.

[Razorskier1]

I think it's done to speed up the tournaments. All the college-aged skiers are hung over, fall on their opener, and the tournament keeps moving.

[ToddL]

Actually, I suggest that the division has a "1" in it and people like things in order... Yes, it could be nothing more than that. What I see is either B1/G1 starts first or M1/W1 does. Again, it is just the 1s and our innate desire to put them first.

 

The right solution to address your concern is to have the division order be randomized. However if you have never been a Tournament Director, you can't even begin to understand the PITA it is to attempt to avoid conflicts with scheduling multi-lake, multi-event, multi-division tournaments. Inevitably, someone will end up running from one lake to another's starting dock. Then, try to fit skiing officials into work slots while trying to avoid conflicts with their ski rides and conflicts of interest in judging family members. Conflicts cause events to stall and wait or risks of skiers to get scratched. When all of the judges are also skiing, it is nearly impossible to avoid conflicts. So, often TDs go with a schedule which has worked out in the past. If that involves M1/W1 on the dock first, then that is what they will use.

[Mateo_Vargas]

Maybe setting up the starting dock as a Pokemon Go stop will get them there?

[ToddL]

LOL, @"Mateo Vargas" I said something similar today at lunch! Pokemon Go Stops at all our lakes is the answer to new skier recruitment!

[MrJones]

I prefer to think of it as and early sacrifice of a few young ones to the lake as an offering for smooth water and no glare...

[ToddL]

FWIW, my son has a few PBs in the history books as the first one off the dock at some key tournaments.

[aussiemc]

As long as I've been involved in this sport at a National level in Australia, 035's men is always first off the dock. We don't use the B1/G1 or M1/W1 but its still the same groups first. I wonder why as well??

[lpskier]

In NY, we usually go youngest to oldest, with some accommodation for officials. For example, a large percentage of our drivers are M4 and 5, so those divisions have to ski in seperate splits. I'm a M5 skier (until Nationals, then I move up) and I prefer to ski early. If I drive for a while before skiing, or sit in a tower, my score tends to go down. #iskiconnelly

[mattm]

Would it be less offensive if we just called it Skier 1-2

[disland]

@unksskis sorry but its whining.

 

Seriously the promo guys have to get there, the judges have to be there, the scorer's have to be there, the boat drivers have to be there, the safety director has to be there, the dock starter has to be there. the tournament director has to be there. the LOC members who got everything ready for you, have to be there.

 

Volunteer to help out and I bet someone will give you a couch to sleep on and probably a few meals along the way. Maybe you should be grateful that you have a place to ski and a promo boat to ski behind and happy to ski no matter where you are on the running order.

[unksskis]

@disland I agree with your points, and I am grateful for all volunteers at tournaments, as we make it happen. You are assuming I was writing on my own behalf, which I was not, I am merely suggesting this be considered if we are trying to attract and maintain this demographic. From this forum it is obvious this isn't the norm nationally.

[lcgordon]

I get both sides of the story. Kids that are die hard like me will be there no matter what. But making the die hards happy is not where your going to grow the sport. It having the ppl show up that maybe arnt super interested or have figure out how fun it can be yet. Then your trying to convince them to come and there like be there at 7am screw that. Lets face it kids my age 18-25 maybe even 30 are probably on a friday night going to go out and get drunk and come home after midnight. Thats priority number 1 to them. So trying to get them to come is like pulling teeth. Then you guys wonder why nobody in that age group shows up. People like me are different. I go to bed early get a good nights sleep and im there early in the morning.

[MrJones]

Am I missing something here. I don't race bikes, do Tri's, or run 10K's, but don't most of those events start early on a Sat/Sun morning? Is there a noon start/hangover division?

[lcgordon]

No but im guessing those sports arnt hurting for young ppl to join. Im not saying It needs to change just that I understand where @unksskis is saying. Personally I like going early in the morning. I get too anxious if I have to sit and wait the whole day.

[MrJones]

I wish the solution to improve tournament skiing participation was as simple as a schedule change. I'd go for it in a minute if I thought it would make a bit of difference, but I don't.

[lcgordon]

I know it wont fix it either. But it could helps with maybe one or two kids a tournament. I personally dont want it to change I like skiing early.

[bbirlew]

I always assumed that it evolved from skiing tournaments on big lakes before private sites became the norm. 36mph skiers get the glass before the wind comes up later in the day.