8 ball 1700' lake

[EFW]

20 years ago I put this in. Then the owner told me to leave because I was " disturbing the CDN geese" ( like we don't have enough of them down here ) All this while him threatening me w/guns. So I left.

The new owner let me go back in there this year. To my surprise every single sub-bouy and anchor were still there. It is tight. I have about 350-390 for the set-up. Not enough room for pregates. Mechanical PP with Zbox does a very good job. But it usually locks on just before the turn in. It goes like this - Hit it- clear the spray- pullout- TURN! No margin for error.

So a friend has offered to survey an 8 ball for me which is great but what do you think of this. Please tell me what you think.

As I laid this out 20 years ago I put it in directly in the middle of the lake. Equidistant everywhere. Now if I lay the 8 ball out now (inlet to outlet) it may give at the boat at the most 50' more for the boat in additional length wise but what it also gives the boat at the south end is an even turning area. Right now when you exit the south end the boat can only turn left. ( or east ) No big deal because you have to stop the boat anyway but it would make it a little easier for the driver and skier.

But this is my major question- if I lay out this new 8 ball I would have at the closest turn ball 35' to 50' from shore. ( it's all wetlands so it's not like I would hit a tree, beach or a dock.) Right now at the closest turn ball I have approximately 113' beyond the turnball to shore.

 

Do you guys feel or think that 35' to 50' from shore is UNSAFE given the conditions - wetlands.

 

I had back surgery 1 year ago and everything I do now I want to avoid unnecessary risk if possible. I skied on my '97 KD 7000 this year because I refused to spend money on anything new if unable to ski at a decent level after back surgery. So given a one year layoff from skiing -the limitations of my new lake - back surgery - I was able to get into 32' a couple times so I guess I can still ski somewhat.

I'll be 59 ( hurts to see that in print) next year so at all costs I want to avoid injury. But on the other hand maybe I am being overly concerned about the distance to shore.

thank you for any input.

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Have you tried circling in? Looks to me like you have plenty of room for 55m buoys. As you exit, drop to the left of the 55s, the boat heads away to the left at approx. a 45 deg angle and circle in to the right. I bet you can get the boat up to speed pretty close to the 55s with this method. I'd give that a try before going to 8 buoys.

[MISkier]

I'm with @Bruce_Butterfield. Try to spin it back in and keep the 6 buoy layout. I skied a lake that was 1750' for years and we were able to go straight into a 6 ball with pregates with no problem. I think you can do pregates as well, especially if you are going to circle back in.

 

While many places (Swiss, for example) have turn buoys that are even closer than 35 feet from shore, I think it's better to have 50 feet or more.

[mwetskier]

pregates are roughly 180 feet from the entrance gates and with a 343 hp zo 196 i can start in the middle of the pregates from a dead stop and easily get to speed by the entrance gates. thats not a guess -i actually tested it this summer. so if you can start from idle 200 feet from the pregates you would be up to speed about the time your skier pulls out -meaning 380 feet from ' hit it ' to entrance gates ought to be plenty.

[Stevie Boy]

If you use a system similar to Phil Hughes, eight bouy course is no problem and would give you loadsa of room, basically you can put pulleys either end on the turn bouy, attached to a electric gate opener, 12v battery topped up by solar power, operated by remote control for either end, Phil has them on a timer, so they return to the surface after you have skied past them, as well as that he has LED lamps on the post so that you can see that they have been activated and being taken down below the surface, think they stay down for about 50secs but that can be altered to what you want.

The end result is a six bouy course, on a short lake, which would not be acheivable otherwise.

Summary: six bouy course, using eight bouys

[lpskier]

We run an 8 ball course at LaPoints with a buoy sinking system similar to Phil's. I think 50 feet is plenty, Ed. 35 is probably okay as long as you have at least four feet of water at the turn balls. If it's much shallower your ski won't set in. Also, I'd reconnoiter for stumps and rocks anywhere you could fall or reach on a tumble. That said, if the lake is subject to law enforcement scrutiny, you are breaking at least two different NY Navigation qlaws.

 

I assume Lex is going to shoot your course. If so and if it looks good to him, that would be good enough for me.

[bishop8950]

Openlanders site in MI is ~1,750 and when spinning in around the islands the set up is quick at 36mph but works fine with a 6 ball set up. If I were running without islands on that same length I would run 8 buoys. I would take the comfort of getting the boat and skier settled before the 180s over the downside of being closer to shore, but thats me.

[Edbrazil]

LaPoint Ski Park in Orlando is about 1580' shoreline to shoreline along the axis of the 8-

buoy course. One end does have a turnout. Apparently, it skis relatively comfortably, and

the boat is up to speed by the 55's (barely). There is a tournament there next weekend.

 

I don't like to see a SL course closer than 100' centerline to shore, or about 62' wide of a

buoy. BUT, if this is a practice site, and people aren't going for broke for an extra 1/4

at 39 and 41, and some good sense is used when to give up, less can work. Especially if

the shore is 'fiendly', as in not rocks & trees.

 

Is this West Mud Lake in Forestville, NY? I will have a look at it on Google Earth.

At this time of year, with skiing about over, you maybe can wait and do it through-ice.

 

Technical Controller Dean Rudy lives in Penfield, NY. He has the same Total Station survey

instrument as I do. Penfield is about 120 miles away, mostly by Interstate.

 

See the attached file. The suggested centerline is about 1550' long. Angled to give more

clearance from land. The lake is actually about 300' wide at the narrowest part. Marks

are for the startgates and exits for a so-called 8-buoy setup. Also for the skier drop areas.

South end drop area gives some extra room to get up to speed.

 

 

 

[Chef23]

We ski some sites up here that are shorter than that and make them work. While not ideal they are certainly skiable and better than not having a course at all. At a couple of them the boat is still getting up to speed between the 55s and the entrance gates. We turn in at one end on one of them and have a short straight in setup on the other.

 

I have skied Lapoints and it skis great with the setup they have. I skied it before they had the sinkable zero ball and still had no problems with it.

[Stevie Boy]

I think that the turn bouy/zero ball only gets in the way for 28 off, I think 32 off you may turn just in front of it, sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong.

[Chef23]

@Stevie Boy at 28 off I tried to stay outside of it. It was actually good to help you keep your width. I could run 28 either going around it or inside it. At 32 I was just inside it.

[KJackfrost]

I would definitely try @Bruce_Butterfield s idea first. I have skied at a site in Avon, CT many times and it is a 6 buoy course at about 1,640 feet. Have to spin pretty hard at both ends but there is plenty of room for pregates. I have seen 38 off run many times there actually. If you can't circle in from both ends, you could always do the 8 buoy later on.

[Chef23]

I have skied Avon straight in at 1640 feet and it is very tight but doable.

[Stevie Boy]

For me, if you want the Driver to be able to feed you in and have you at the right speed at the 55,s without being under speed or on overrun with speed dropping off through the Gate, personally I would favour the 8 Bouy, consistent Gates are the key to consistent skiing, for that you need to know the boat speed is pretty good at the 55,s.

If somebody just gasses you out of the hole and into the course it feels awfully rushed my man, which means you are very likely to end up narrow and just cranking turns, unless you are a seasoned pro that is.

Just my personal experience, the whole thing feels fast.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Here's a picture of Hank's Pond in Central Square, NY, just north of Syracuse. I skied tournaments here when I first started in the '80s. The yellow line is right at 1500'. On the west end, the boat circled in counterclockwise and you were pulling out on the inside of the turn. On the east end, the skier would drop right at the exit gates. The boat would start out going left and circle in clockwise and the skier would be whipping out for the gates.

 

This was in the days of 36mph long line, manual drivers and 240Hp boats. At 1700', circling in with a modern boat with speed control and 55m buoys should be easy.

 

 

[Edbrazil]

Wonder if Hank's pond is still being used? Hank Miner, who fought in WW2, and was a

former Regional Chairman, AWSA President and a mover & shaker, is now long gone. He

owned a contractor business.

 

[EFW]

Guys so sorry I can't answer in-depth right now. 16 hours today. Have to drive an hour home. I've read everything. I so appreciate everyone's advice and thoughts.

[EFW]

@lpskier @Edbrazil @Bruce_Butterfield @OB1 I agree with the circling in but my wife won't have it. Everything thing I do as as far her driving me has to be done with her being comfortable at the helm. I tried everything thing out there and she was at her best going straight out and straight in. I just drop straight behind and brake with the ski to keep the rope tight and my wife just spins the boat in its length at an idle and we head straight back in. Poor analogy but Its like this- if I don't like her cooking - don't eat it, cook it yourself. Same thing with her driving. She's the boss. It's a 1990 240 HP 351 Ford. It's an excellent runner - but it is what it is. That is true and I agree that w/ZO no problem. A friend had an 1100' 8 ball. With his CC 200 W/ZO we were up to speed @ 55's everytime. (So smoothly also.) Unfortunately my pockets are not that deep. The nice thing about the 8 ball is all I have to do is remap it and my wife wont have to change a thing. I have tried to explain the 8 ball idea to her but she cant get come to grips with it. "How's it going to be shorter with 2 more balls?"

Ed you you are correct. That's the lake. The centerline you plotted is very close to actual. My friend is a licensed engineer and does have a total station survey survey setup. Yes John, Lex is the one who would shoot it. But check this out John - NYS terms it private water due to there being no access other than the private launch. When I went for the permit NYS Parks and and Recreation said not necessary. He went to to Google Earth and checked it out. Lot of drama in my life recently. I dont think I'm going to get to pulling the anchors this year. I've run out of time. ( the most precious of of commodities)

George I'll show my wife your 8 ball video

Thanks everyone.

[klindy]

Cindonway in northern Indiana is 1610 shore to shore with a 6 buoy course. Islands on both ends spin in to the course. Tight but it works. Works for jump too.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@efw, it appears that you have either learned, or are very near learning the 2 magic words that are the secret to happiness in life.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Yes dear"

[Wish]

We have 1750' turn into course. Works just fine.

[EFW]

@OB1

Thanks George. That's great.

[EFW]

@Bruce_Butterfield I try to keep her happy.

 

[Edbrazil]

At LaPoint Ski Park in Orlando, where there is an "8-buoy" course, they go straight in from

one end (dock end). Distance is 505 feet from shore to the start gate. Might be some

useful information. Boat is up to speed by the pregates, but this is a current model boat.

[EFW]

@Edbrazil thank you for all your efforts.

Nice work I appreciate it. My wife was impressed that someone would go that far to answer a stranger's question.

[MISkier]

One thing that people forget about a 8 buoy course is that the extra distance you get coming into the entrance gates has a price in how fast you must shut down after the exit gates. That, in itself, can be a challenge to the less confident driver.

 

At 1700 feet, I'd rather curve it in than risk beaching the boat.

[EFW]

@MISkier .

Almost forgot this bit of information. I was talking to Eric at Perfect Pass and they will have some new software this spring. It will work for drive by wire and mechanical. It will be more aggressive for short setups and will also not require a major slow down when going around the turn Islands.

He said that this version that most people are running right now is basically the prototype for an all pure GPS system. I think I have 8.06 or 8.07 one of the two.

[Ralph Lee]

Nothing better than a super short set up! Who wants to drag around behind the boat if they don't need to? Pull up, and pull out.

[MISkier]

@EFW, here is one of my ski partners on a 1750' lake with a 6 ball course. We didn't even really curve it in - just had him off to the right on pullup. I'm driving.

 

The boat is a Prostar 205, 310 HP, PerfectPass StarGazer running in CLASSIC mode (RPM). I think it was version 8.05. We had room to run along the shore and curve in, if we wanted. We also could have dropped at the 55s and did a loop back in. We chose to usually run it straight in or with a slight angle.

 

This was several years ago. I really liked that boat, but prefer the ZO and Malibu LX that I upgraded to.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZrueY-x4Wk

[Magee]

@MISkier nice stache!

[liquid d]

super short saves gas! I had a lake that was 1280 (Garden Lake in Winter Park/Orlando). We did 4 bouys one direction and 6 the other way. We pushed it to one end to get away from one guy. We spun in on both ends, and worked perfect!

However, the best idea ever is No top Sundays! I'm going to start working on that this weekend!

[lpskier]

@EFW FYI, Ed. DEC issues the floating object permit that you may, or may not, need. Parks and Recreation is out.

[EFW]

@MISkier That certainly looks like plenty of time. He was gliding for a while. Thanks for that.

[EFW]

@lpskier. John the same guy Lex dealt with at NYS for his permit is the same guy I dealt with. Maybe I have the depts. mixed up. When he said no permit necessary - I said. "thank you very much".

[lpskier]

@EFW That would work for me, too.