Switching it up - Vapor to Senate

[bojans]

I got to take my first set on my Lithium Senate last night and I can say it is love at first ski. I am a 40 something chubby guy who gets into 22' off @34. I had been on a 16' Lithium Vapor and really liked the ski but Horton's review and talking to some other skiers on them gave me the assurance the performance of the ski would not hold me back. After a few back surgeries I have been a cautious skier, even using a drop ski to save my back. The Senate is so easy to ski and the added width made deep water starts easy enough I didn't have to use a drop ski. I only skied at 32 15' last night but I felt smoother, more stable, nearly as fast and I was less fatigued. I will provide more feedback later, but for those of us that are not short line skiers, I think this is an option worth looking into.

[Dacon62]

Yup. Agree. That has been my experience too.

[Stickman]

If anyone else is riding the 65", I would like to hear your numbers in addition to your weight and height. Thanks!

[gt2003]

I'm thinking of making the same change but will likely be from my '16 Alloy Vapor to a Graphite Senate but maybe a Lithium. I need the extra stabilization...and to lose 15 lbs!

[RichardDoane]

the Senate can be a good choice for short line as well, just ask @eddie_roberts_jr

[Keith_Menard]

I am really looking forward to the off season when one of you jamokes gets the upgrade bug and I can pick up a used Lithium :)

[C5Quest]

Took my first few sets on my 17 Lithium Senate today. Big difference from my 17 Vapor pro build. Loved it. After 30 years of open water skiing I'm getting back into the course regularly now at 15 off. Last time I skied a course was 25 years ago. This ski is exactly what I needed to step it down a notch and get back to basics without sacrificing performance. Recovering from a lower back injury and makes a huge difference in fatigue. Love the ski and will serve me well as I progress quickly back to 22 off. Still getting it dialed in and messing with fin and bindings. Used my reflex set up off my Vapor with recommended setting but felt like I was too far back and riding the tail. Had to move them forward one hole. Probably selling the pro build now to concentrate on the senate until I'm im into 28 off. Really impress with this ski

[escmanaze]

I'm pumped to hear your review. I just bought a lithium senate hoping it will be the best ski for me for 32 mph -15 and 34 mph -15 passes. A concern I had was where Horton mentioned 30 and 32 being the sweet spot for this ski I was worried I might be buying the wrong ski for 34 mph to be my hardest pass. However, I don't even know what 34 mph -15 should feel like. Since you have been at 34 mph at both -15 and -22, I would really love to hear feedback from you once you ride this ski there, especially in comparison to a vapor.

 

I don't have back problems, I just have "weak sauce body" problems whether it is the hands, forearms, biceps, core or whatever, I just need a ski that gets speed without quite so much tug. I'm hoping this is the one. Like I said, I can't wait to hear what you say about it as you ski 34 mph.

[mikegile]

The Senate works great at 34mph. High performance ski that takes less effort than the vapor through 35.

[Rivvy]

Interesting. I'm debating same switch. I've got a 2014 lithium vapor and considering a new ski this winter, 2018 senate or pro build. Skiing @ 34 mph. I'm a -28 off skier with 1 successful pass through at -32. What do you think?

[buski]

I ski 15-22 at 32/34 and some cracks at 28. Have been nothing but impressed with the 17 lithium senate. Have had more consistency than ever and can't wait to get more time on it.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@Rivvy I have seen recommendations by knowledgeable people on this site that if you are consistently running -28 at 34mph you are probably better off on a high end ski (e.g. Vapor) than a mid-range ski. If you are at an age bracket where your max speed is 32 or less, you would likely get a different recommendation. Based on my research, if I were skiing at your level I would be on the Vapor or one of its competitors.

[Rivvy]

Thanks. I got similar feedback from performance. Watch out pocketbook.

[C5Quest]

Just buy a Vapor and Senate and be done with it

[C5Quest]

Second day on my Senate and running 22 off easier than 15 off. It has made a world of difference in progression. Hope to be back up to speed at 34 mph soon and run the Vapor and senate back to back. For now though the senate is were it's at.

[Bill22]

@C5Quest do you mind sharing with us what size skis you have? Is your Vapor a 67" and your Lithium Senate also a 67"?

 

I am asking because I am on a 66" vapor and you know the Senate does not come in 66".

[Tdub]

Got mine ordered from Performance Ski and Surf. Just need some warmer weather on Ohio's Northcoast. Brrrr. Where are those dog days of Summer?

[C5Quest]

@Bill22 Both my Vapor and Senate are 67". I'm 5'7 and at my fat weight of 175-180. (Stocky, not fat)

[C5Quest]

The Senate is perfect is perfect for what I'm doing but the Vapor seems a bit big. Thinking if I slim down a few pounds and speed things up the 66 Vapor maybe better for me

[UWSkier]

@C5Quest that seems backwards to me. A 67" Senate has a fair bit more surface area than a 67" Vapor. You might be feeling discrepancies in setup more than the actual physical ski size.

[C5Quest]

Maybe. Still experimenting with set up, but the 67 Senate is better at the slow speeds. It just floats and a lot less effort. I'll have to try them head to head at faster speeds.

[Jmoski]

@C5Quest - I put my 67" vapor side by side with my buddies 67" senate and we realized the front binding on the senate is about 1.5" farther forward than on the vapor (this correct based on Radar specs, we have the same size bindings.)

 

Hence, this might be why the vapor "seems" bigger. I assume the senate being wider is part of why the binding is more forward.

[OldboyII]

Senate is more tolerant to tail riding due to more surface behind the front binding. IMO.

[C5Quest]

Ya I held them up together and noticed a big difference with the binding inserts. I went with initial suggested settings and ended up moving then forward one hole (have a reflex super shell front setup) and things worked out well. Could be that I measured from different place on binding. On the reflex there is a 1/2 inch difference if you measure from bottom of boot where it meets the heel cup or back of boot up high just under the strap. Either way I think I found a spot that's working for now