New hardshell need some suggestion

[cacman]

Just purchased new super shell, I have been on a reflex over 10 years. Currently skiing on a 68inch HO VTR. Put supershell on same position as old boot, turned like tank on side off side not great. Boots so close together the metal an release touching back big toe, felt like if I ejected I would hurt back toe. Moved supershell forward little better I have moved both back both forward. Tried moving fin forward a bit then I felt like water grabbing my front foot. It seems supershell will lean back too far and too easy. There are stoppers on both sides of boot but I think they should be larger. I would really appreciate any suggestions.

[Deanoski]

I feel your pain, early this year I was trying a new shell and got no where so I went back to the old shell and everything felt right, changing boots is harder than skis IMO.

 

good luck!

[Waternut]

Even switching to a different liner in the same shell is like learning to ski again. It'll come back pretty quick (10-15 sets) so if you want to use that new shell, keep with it.

[cacman]

I have rotated back boot, but I have always had it rotated. I have about 15 set on it now and I am struggling make my opening pass. I really think it leans back too far. I have tried contacting reflex but no reply. Trying to figure out a way to put larger stoppers on side of boot.

[Deanoski]

@cacman the good thing a blk reflex shell is only 120. very cheap compared to skis and boats theses days just order a new blk shell and start ripping again.

[eleeski]

While I don't know exactly which shell you have, I've seen a couple Reflex shells that have very little support out the back. Others are quite stiff. I pin my trick shells with bolts to get enough support. There is a large variation between shells.

 

I looked at Merry's new Reflex shell with no support against going back and figured I'd have to modify it to suit me if I used it. I'd first cut an antifreeze plastic bottle to get a 6 inch by 8inch flat sheet of plastic. I'd stuff this between the back of the liner and the inside of the shell. Try that to see if it stiffens the boot enough. Trim any excess. If that plastic isn't stiff enough then cut up a cheap wastebasket or something with flexible plastic. The plastic from a 5 gallon bucket is way too stiff from my experience.

 

A thick Intuition liner will also give more stiffness - and look a bit cleaner (this was Merry's solution). There are lots of ways to tune a boot to your preferences. Talk to your local pro shop or go to a snow ski bootfitter.

 

Eric

[cacman]

I field engineered a couple of stoppers for the back, they keep me more forward like a snow ski boot. Has made a huge difference. Still not back to where I was.

 

[Horton]

@cacman I am not sure I understand the problem. You went from an older Reflex to the supershell and now the release is farther back and is closer to the toes of your back foot?

 

As far as your skiing I suggest you go back to your original settings. If your fin and bindings are in the same place the only difference should be the flex of the shell. I would not suggest moving fin and bindings to compensate for boot flex.

 

Am I missing something?

[cacman]

Nothing to do with the release, although the release does nearly set on top of big toe and I worry when it does release I may break my toe. It seems to be shaped a little different then the old one. The top of the boot, where your ankle is at, allows you to tilt/lean /shift, back past 90 degrees. They have two black stoppers but they don't stop the top cuff of boot until you are way past 90 degrees. Apparently I rock back and away at end of turn and I need some support like you would have in a snow ski boot. Skied with Adam cord couple weeks ago, he had a metal bar permently attached between boot and cuff angled forward,

[Horton]

1) @AdamCord is crazy

 

2) now I understand you're talking about. I still suggest you return your fin and bindings to original settings and deal with the range of motion of your boot separately.

[AdamCord]

@Horton you know you want to try it

 

 

[Horton]

Not really

[Deanoski]

That looks like a fraken. Boot to me and I have tried lots of boot mods over the yrs started skiing hard shells in 1986 Back in the ARC days

[Deanoski]

@cacman Just get a new boot the same as the old one if you want the same 404 release just flip the rear block over and top and rip

[eleeski]

@AdamCord If you oversize the hole a bit and add a rubber bushing, you won't tear the plastic in the shell. I used some vacuum hose cut very short. I pinned my trick shells like that for years with very good results. Without the rubber the shells tore quickly.

 

Eric

[MattP]

@AdamCord care to share the philosophy behind making the cuff hold a static position?

[AdamCord]

@cacman sorry for derailing your thread.

 

@MattP The Reflex boot in its stock form wants to hold your shin vertical, and it takes some effort to bend your ankle. Here's a shot of one:

 

Now let's have a look at some of the arguably best performing boots that have existed:

 

All these boots have something in common, they force your ankle to flex forward. This is desirable when skiing because it forces your hips/COM forward on the ski. I won't explain here why that's a good thing.

 

As for why wouldn't you want to be able to flex your ankle backward? Tell me at what point in the course have you ever thought "I need my hips to be further back on the ski"? The Radar in particular allows for very little backward movement and it is clearly very successful. Honestly the only reason I don't run that boot is that I like the Reflex release system better. Locking the cuff on the Reflex gives me the best of both worlds, and my skiing has become much more consistent since making this modification last year.

 

Here I am doing some dry land modeling with the modified boot:

 

 

[Chef23]

@AdamCord can the boot flex forward with your modification?

[AdamCord]

@Chef23 no it's locked solid. There's enough play in the liner that my ankle can flex some front to back, but the cuff doesn't move. I like it like this because it won't let me overflex my ankle, similar to the limiting strap Reflex puts on the cuff.

[Andre]

Could this mode affect release or protection of the Achilles, yes,no same thing ?

Snapped mine on a '' late release '' of my black cuff Reflex and don't want it to happen again...

[OldboyII]

@AdamCord It is widely discussed question in alpine skiing: how far forward we should lean boot cuff.

There is a consensus opinion that cuff leaned too forward produces an opposite effect - it loads tail of the ski at the moment when you need to straighten your legs or stay tall. It is also more difficult to load ski tip in the boot inclined too forward.

 

[AdamCord]

@Andre good question. To me it feels safer like this because my ankle can put a lot of pressure on the boot without overflexing my ankle.

 

@OldboyII interesting. I did try further forward and did not like it. There is still a soft liner plus some flex in the plastic so it's not like a cast. It does let me get away with falling to the tail more that's for sure.

 

[Gar]

Wow looks so different!

[StevePops]

@AdamCord @cacman The swedish coach Thomas Gustafson helped me with my boot. He put a "breaker" on each side of the boot to stop the boot from flexing too much backward. Reflex has the same principle on their new model(as you mentioned @cacman) . Here is a picture of what we did.

 

[OldboyII]

Supershel 2.0 has this stoper out of the box

http://reflexwaterskiusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Reflex-SuperShell-2.0-G10.jpg

 

[cacman]

I have that exact model. The stoppers are not tall enough. They should make two or three different ones they could sale.

[cacman]

I have fabricated some taller ones and they are working much better. I just don't have the abilities to make them as nice as the short ones that came with boot.

[PurdueSkier]

@cacman glad to hear new stops are working better. No more excuses!

[cacman]

Hey @Stevepops do you know what material he used for that stopper. Looks a lot better then what I did.

[OldboyII]

cacman would you forgive me if I ask short question in your thread (do not want to create short threads)

Does anybody knows - Is it possible to use Supershel on standard (same size 8) reflex plate with single horseshoe and w/o heel piece.

Want to try friends new ski with this plate and I can borrow Supershell from another friend ))

[StevePops]

@cacman I bought a hard plastic cutting board in an italian store and Thomas heated it over the stove, and bended it a bit, so it would follow the curve of the boot. Then we sawed out the right size.

[skialex]

You can fabricate them out of a thick polyethylene sheet, or Teflon sheet. I have a Teflon block that I cut and fabricate stuff from it. I have made a heel block for my reflex out of it and 9 years later still looking like it could last for ever.

[OldboyII]

@skialex teflon heel block is a great idea. Makes release smooth & more reliable.

[StevePops]

@cacman You can buy the plastic cutting board in any common shop. It does not need to be italien :)

[Mateo_Vargas]

@AdamCord where did you get the Docksider HRT?

[AdamCord]

@"Mateo Vargas" the what?

[Mateo_Vargas]

The Hybrid Rear Toe in your photo.

[Ed_Johnson]

@AdamCord ...When I first saw the rigid bar anchoring the boot I thought that was insane. Then the more I thought about it I decided it may be Genius. When I first switched from rubber to Hardshells in 1994, the ski became so much more reactive to the slightest movement. The lateral increase in stiffness was responsible for that. So by now making the fore and aft movement rigid would the ski become more responsive in pitch ???

 

One of my major problems has been that at 35 off and shorter, when I go for my maximum lean, I have a tendency to straighten my legs. Although it is slight, it does change COM balance with a slight loss of acceleration. It takes a real conscious effort to keep the knees bent with forward lean in the direction of travel. The question was, would the Adam Cord Mod aid in this effort ???

 

I decided to give it a try. Holy Smokes Bat Man, it works. I set the angle I thought would work and anchored the Cuff solidly in place. Started with what I meant to be a really careful 28 off, and smoked right through that. Came back at 32, and right through that also. So 35 was next, and I was way to fast using my usual effort. I had to back off, because it was easier to get the acceleration I wanted. Once I figured that out, NEW PB for the year !!!

 

THANK YOU Adam. It's not every day such a simple mod could yield results. Decided to start saving for the New 68" Denali !!!!!

 

 

[AdamCord]

@Ed_Johnson I'm happy this mod is working for you! So far everyone I've convinced to try it hasn't gone back. Out of curiosity, what angle (measured from the back of the cuff) did you land on?

[Ed_Johnson]

@AdamChord ... What I did was to get into my best knee forward COM centered position and have my Wife use a sharpie and outline the cuff on my Supershell. Then I took the boot and compared what I had, to the pictures you had. You said you didn't use the Full Forward position, so I backed it off about 10 degrees and bolted the cuff to the boot on each side. Seemed to match exactly what you posted and worked great. The best part was that my COM seemed to stay centered more naturally throughout the whole course.

 

My next step is to add the 10 degrees back, and try to exactly match the outline she drew. Then I will know which one is best.

 

Thanks again, ED

 

 

[MattP]

@AdamCord What is the angle range people have been settling on? How is it measured? I am thinking about giving this a shot.

[AdamCord]

@MattP measuring parallel with the back of the cuff, 20 degrees ahead of vertical is where I ended up. Most others are close to that but it can take a little trial and error to get it right for each person.

 

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@AdamCord now that looks like a factory stock setup B)

Oh and nice background too!

 

I tried anchoring the cuff forward probably 10 years ago and it had definite benefits. But I lost a little consistency and didn't mess with it much after a few sets. There is definitely more to bindings than meets the eye

[Ed_Johnson]

Added another 10 degrees and it was a significant difference. At first I was worried it was to much, and at first it was. Much more sensitive to forward pressure. Overturned 2 ball big time. However, the ski REALLY TURNED off the apex. Told myself to calm down and let it do it's thing, and boy did it. Not only did it turn quicker off the apex but accelerated much better at the same time. It just does much more with less effort.

 

Measured it per Adam's instructions. First setting was 12 degrees, and second setting 22 degrees from vertical. That's where I'm leaving it for now. Absolutely LOVING it, @AdamChord !!! THANKS

 

 

 

[Ed_Johnson]

Added another 10 degrees today for a significant difference. At first I thought it might be to much, and at first it was. Turned so quick off 2 ball on my opener, I was right in the Lake. Told myself to calm down and let it do it's thing. It sure did !!!

 

It just takes much less effort to get bigger results, especially as the line gets shorter. At 35 off acceleration comes in so quick when you load. Made some buoys today I had no business making.

 

Measured my 2 anchor points as per @AdamChord . First setting I tried Sat. was 12 degrees. Second setting today was 22 degrees from Vertical on the ski. Even though that is much more sensitive I feel that's where I need to be. Absolutely LOVING IT, THANKS Adam !!!!

 

 

[AdamCord]

@Ed_Johnson That's great! I know what you mean on sensitivity. I ended up pulling my boots back a hole when I first made this change because my COM was naturally much further forward. Then it was perfect.

[BVGbelgium]

@AdamCord don't you brake your toe when the release goes off? i'm looking for a good safety binding cause i broke my ankle a few weeks ago...

[AdamCord]

@BVGbelgium what @DaveLemons said. I can't think of a time I've ever had the reflex release when my back foot hadn't already come out. Even if it hadn't the release mechanism will hit the rubber and not my toe, and the rubber is pretty stiff/thick. While I do wish we had safer options for water skiing, it's hard to beat a well adjusted Reflex and RTP for safety.

[BVGbelgium]

ok thanks!

[JAS]

Anxious to give this a try in the spring