For the non tournament skier...thinking about it.

[Wish]

Hopefully answered by the first skiers thinking about a tournament or the ones that left for reasons but thinking of coming back.

 

So what would get you to try one or come back if you are on the bubble? -- Would it be betting info on how they work if new to you? Fun tournament format (head to head or ability based)? Guarantied a mulligan or two? Trophies, medals, prizes? Less rules? ................

 

So what are the barriers that stop you if you are on that bubble? -- Cost? All day or weekend? Format? No tournaments close enough? Current one and done format? Fear?

 

 

 

Note: the skiers that will never do a tournament IMHO will never enter a tournament and that is 100% ok with me...just keep on turning buoys and enjoy.

[Ralph Lee]

Equal competition. If I can win or lose my division by 7-10 buoys, I'm not interested.

[keithh2oskier]

I used to ski tournaments a lot (~10-12/yr as a junior and into collegiate) but haven't skied a tournament since my last college event. I am in Sacramento so there is no shortage of tournaments in the area with multiple options on any given weekend. I got bored with the traditional tournament format and after skiing college and have really had no interest to go back.

 

The biggest barrier to get me back is time and what I get out of skiing a tournament. I really don't have all day to sit around and take 2 rides. Usually on the weekends we can get a few hours in before any one of the many things going on during the weekend. I have a young family who enjoys being at the lake but that includes my wife skiing (1/2 way to making the course) and now my 3 year old riding up and down the lake on her inflatable ski and swimming around. I feel like if I go ski a tournament, that is time they have to spend off the water which is NOT what I want.

[mlange]

I'd need practice days in the course on the lake hosting the tourney.

 

Where we are there is a grand total of one course on public water so we're stuck free skiing. I'm not going to show up and spend my day missing my 22-off pass in each round when I can get a few runs in before 10am and be home to relax or work on my honey-do list.

 

 

[UWSkier]

Same boat as @mlange. Lakes everywhere but no courses worth a damn. Unless you don't mind skiing in farm runoff. Pretty crazy given all the damn lakes.

[Ilivetoski]

@Ralph Lee so would handicapping make you ski more? Or do you want people who are literally running +\- a buoy from you

[mopowpow]

Give a mulligan, or give each skier 4-6 starts to do what they want. Some people might not be able to run the course on their first try, but do on their second. What about the poor skier that blows their gate on the first pass? What a waste of the day and money! I used to ski tournaments, but quit about 5 years ago. I was injured and needed 2 of my opening pass to get warmed up. Tournaments need to be lightened up, allow people to actually ski more than a few passes. In our area we have a bunch of 'senior' skiers that won't allow anything to change, we keep hoping they finally move south to a retirement ghetto. I now just enjoy going out and running smooth passes. Some days I just run my opening pass 6 times. No stress, no bad crashes, no getting mad because I didn't hit my average or PB.

[Ralph Lee]

@Ilivetoski I really like Hortons concept.

[ozski]

I would be very tempted to get involved with something that was a run as a twilight series with fewer skiers so that I am not in a position where I have to burn an entire weekend. Back in the day we had an "off the dock" challenge from month to month and that was a lot of fun and got the non tournament guys competing against each other. Running scores were kept on a big white board and scrubbed at the start of each month. Best skiers still won and plenty of fun was had.

[MISkier]

@mopowpow, the rules already allow you to miss your gate on your opening pass, provided you run the 6 buoys and make the exit gate. You must run your second pass (which must be shorter or faster), including both gates, to achieve a score on both passes. Some tournaments are sanctioned as Grassroots. With those you can allow novices to have a guaranteed 4 passes. Also, in a Grassroots sanctioned event, I believe the skier can choose to ski class F. You still get a score, but it is capped at the cutoff score for the top of Level 5 in your division.

 

@ozski, here in Michigan, we run at least 10 weeknight tournaments in June, July, and August. Usually 20 skiers or less, although the tournament we had on Tuesday 7/18 had 26 skiers and we had to cap it with more calling to ski. It is a great way to compete, socialize, get a score, and not burn a weekend.

[BrennanKMN]

Several of my ski partners are 30-33 MPH 15 off skiers. As a result they really are turned off to tournaments. They would be more interested if it were more of an INT format where it was handicapped and ability based.

 

For myself. I'd like to see a mulligan or two and ability based vs. age based. I am a decent skier, but I am not always consistent. I have had weeks in practice where I hose up my second pass and go on to re-run it and shorten twice more successfully.

 

Would you go to practice and pack up and go home after your first fall?

 

 

If the INT scene existed where I am I would already be doing that, as would several of my ski buddies. Maybe that helps?

[Chef23]

There is no reason that the tournament director can't run a handicapped event. @MikeT runs one inside of a regular tournament every fall in NH and it skiers get regular scores for AWSA and a fun handicapped event going on simultaneously.

 

As @Horton indicated it takes some creating thinking and extra work for the tournament organizer but there is no reason that creative things can't be done at the same time as a regular tournament for scores.

 

One of the things I like about AWSA events vs the INT is multiple rounds. While you may get a mulligan at INT events there is generally only one round for your event. You can enter multiple events like wide ride for example but there is only one round in your ability based division. The majority of AWSA tournaments I have skied in are 2-3 rounds so you do get another chance to wash away a bad set.

[ScarletArrow]

Another alternative format I've been playing with is called "Six Shooter" - basically a double turn & burn that guarantees skiers receive a minimum number of passes and full value of time on the water.

 

A skier skis their normal up the line score that gets recorded in the record books. From there, they are allowed additional passes to improve their score up to a maximum of 6 passes or 2 falls.

 

So if someone runs 34/15, 22, and 3@28 they would get 3 more shots to improve their 28off score that would go into the handicap scoring spreadsheet.

 

Alternatively, if someone ran 5@15off on their opener, that score would go into the record books; however, they could still get up to 5 more passes to improve their handicap score.

 

This goes back to my 5k or 18 holes analogy in another thread. I know my official score is up the line, but give me the full value of my time on the water.

 

I realize that a major downside to this is everyone's set takes longer thereby potentially increasing the length of the tournament day. I think the solution is similar to @OB1 ideas above and elsewhere - tournaments should be small (`20 skiers) and require fewer officials (Driver, Boat Judge, Scorer).

[Wish]

I think a new thread should be started. "How to improve the tournament scene to be more exclusive". Id let this thread stand on the question at hand so we learn what the concerns are before putting up solutions or skiers that have concerns may stop posting thinkn their concerns will end up being invalid.

[nam1975]

Fun formats and not all day...

 

Evenings or even a weekend that is done or starts mid afternoon.

 

Also Demo days!

We have no pro shops in our area. Half tourney half demo day if Radar or HO was there would be cool.

 

@OB1...

[disland]

re-tweet @OB1 I have to highlight what was said above.

 

A certified driver. Assistant (level 7 or better) or regular judge in the boat judging and writing scores down on a clipboard.

 

No radios. No times if ZO is used. No scorer. No safety. No tower judges.

 

Submit scores online with your phone or computer to a website or app developed by USAWS later that night.

 

Class C and scores count toward rankings.

 

STOP MAKING THE SPORT SO DIFFICUlt

[ski6jones]

As a practical matter there are lots of calls for a shorter event, and also lots of calls for more skiing per skier. All sounds good but at some point the two become mutually exclusive unless you run on multiple lakes, etc. Just an observation.

[BrennanKMN]

@ScarletArrow

That is the best idea I have heard yet. I would partake in those events for sure.

[aupatking]

I love some of the ideas here but, I think @Wish was really looking for input from non tournament skiers.

When I first started competing 3 years ago I was very nervous. I didn't know lake/course etiquette and I knew it. I also didn't want to go out and try to ski a pass below full speed, miss it, and be done. Even if I get two rounds, 2 passes all day for $70 didn't sound, at all appealing. A 4 pass guarantee and a little hand-holding for those signing up as grass roots (or whatever they want to call that program) would go a huge distance. I would not have come back for another tournament, seriously, were it not for JR Henley and the group at Ski Chaste totally inviting me in. Literally. The dinner and party at JR's house make it feel like family.

[Wish]

@aupatking yes.