Two boot bindings or rear toe plate?!!!

[jenksski]

Guys

 

Need some advice.

I've been slalom skiing for 2 1/2 years.

I'm skiing on a 2016 Radar Senate Graphite with Vector front boot binding and artp.

I'm progressing quite well.

Was wondering whether to try to convert to two boot bindings.

 

It would be great to get advice on the pros and cons?

 

Look forward to hearing from fellow buoy chasers

 

Cheers guys :)

[Wish]

No to double boot. RTP allows for heal rise of back foot which puts COM forward on ski and further squares hips to ski. Plus you sold u were progressing nicely..stick with it IMHO. I regret being a double boot guy having learned what I've learned over the last couple if years. Trying to transition back to RTP style.

[6balls]

Such a personal preference thing. I ski RTP cuz easier on my back to get up and an achlles that is not that flexible...thus in the preturn my heel lifts. If I ski doubles I"m too far back. So to save my back and not be too far back I'm a RTP guy.

There are valid counter arguments.

[dhofert]

If you are progressing well i wouldnt change. I didn't like how my foot slid around on my old combo skis rtp. I tried double boot when I demoed my new Senate this summer and didn't care for it. My solution was the HRT, stops the side to side slide I didn't like, but still allows my heel to lift.

[Andre]

Main reason for me using RTP is being able to relax my back knee in between passes by taking my foot out...

[sunnydaysmn]

I have always been a rtp skier, tried the double boots a few times.. This year I trying the hybrid rear toe (hrt) from Radar.. it takes a little adjusting but I can still get out of the water with one leg & then wiggle my back foot into the hrt..

[mmosley899]

@jenksski forget double boots if you can use a rtp and you are still progressing, if you want to secure your heel side to side, use the Radar HRT as @sunnydaysmn said. I use that setup when trying new skis.

[bigskieridaho]

RTP.

[2tracmind]

I skied a rtp until 10 years ago quite effectively for limited water time (32 off, 4 at 35) then got a new ski and needed new boots so the upgrade to double was only 60 dollars so what the heck,, almost everyone seems to doubles so why not there must be an advantage. Finally got some video 5 years ago and "ugh" a became very back footed. Switched back to rtp and quickly felt in better position and more athletic.

 

I believe if you can run 35's or better than it is personal preference but i have not seen a single skier on double boots below that level that does not push the ski around with the back foot or who's body position is too far back. IMHO.

 

The rtp needs some personal tailoring/tinkering/adjusting so the fit is right.

[ozski]

There is a middle ground here, hybrid or something like a vector open toe and throw away the top laces which is what I do. My setup allows me to lift my heel right up but I retain some of the double boot stability. @FWinter and @twhisper might have something to say on the whole double v single boot issue. Personally I have come the full circle and found a decent compromise for me. Like so many things in skiing boot setup is personal and not black and white, plenty of great skiers on both.

[jenksski]

Hey guys

 

Thanks so much for all the good advice.

 

With more or less everyone's advice is to stay withthe artp/rtp.

Looks like I should stick with it.

I'm happy with my ski set up.

I keep going as I am.

 

Obviously being new to the sport and 35 yrs old, I suppose I shouldn't be too concerned about changing.

 

 

Thanks again.

Till next time :)

 

 

 

[Mancy]

@Wish when do I want to lift my heel?

[OldboyII]

@jenksski IMO the best way to understand what fits you is to try all options - RTP, HRT, Rear boot & make a choice.

I'm also a beginner - 3 years in slalom. Did try everything and do like RTP.

Beginning & end of season, when water is burning cold I do like @ozski - rear boot w/o upper laces.

 

[6balls]

@mancy you don't have to lift your heel. When I bend my front knee in the pre-turn to bring my center of mass forward my heel has no choice but to lift b/c my ankle will not dorsiflex far enough to keep my heel on the ski. In my case if my heel stayed down I don't get far enough forward in the pre-turn.

[BraceMaker]

Have you guys measured ankle to ankle distance between RTP and hardshells? Further back the rear foot the more your heel is forced to lift or on the flip the more rearwards your weight.

[Horton]

@6balls almost every skier I have ever seen with their back heel off the ski has actually been farther back on the ski. Skiers - especially intermediate skiers going toward the wakes trying to get forward will think that because their back heel is up and they are on their toes that they are forward. The reality is they are in a weak and hips (COM) back stance.

 

If you are in fact moving your hips forward into the ball and that brings your heel up that is awesome but that would make you an exception in my book.

[OldboyII]

Straightening back knee and simultaneously bending rear ankle more, to keep heel in contact with plate does a miracle.

I did not believe it before tried.

[6balls]

@horton the only time my heel comes up is after the wash into the ball...not after the ball toward the wake...I can't imagine that scenario. Out of the ball thru the wakes and wash my heel is down. Comes up briefly in the pre-turn.

 

Before pull out for gates it's up too as I focus on standing over my front foot--at that time it's fully intentional.

 

I can entirely see your point, however. I know you preach to straighten the back leg...and if one's rear leg were too far bent it may be because someone is too far back, and if the knee was so far flexed it would necessitate raising the heel.

 

You gotta understand how inflexible my ankles are...that may make me an exception. Every time I've had physical therapy for an injury they say so. If I were more flexible there my heel would not come up.

 

 

 

[Horton]

@6balls you have to just understand how completely mixed the readership of this website is. We have people reading every word because they want to run the course for the first time and we have people that run 41 off. When I see stuff that I think will totally screw up lower-level skiers I try to always chime in.

[6balls]

@horton no problem totally understand.

[Horton]

@6balls by the way I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just saying there's some detail missing to our conversation

[6balls]

@horton I getcha. My point was I have some flexibility issues so I run a RTP cuz my heel lifts in pre-turn but that flexibility issue ain't the case for most humans. I also do it to save my low back on hole shots.

 

With that I think most that have adequate flexibility should be fine in a RTP or a dbl binding set up. I wouldn't advise go toe-loop such that one can or should lift their heel specifically. You are right lifting a heel is not good technical advice...if ever anyone goes to a pro clinic and has the pro say hey man...if you just lift your heel you are golden let me know.

 

Go with what's comfortable based on individual preference for a variety of factors and then work technique.

 

As always great site, great info, and great reminders on level of skiing we are potentially advising.

[powbmps]

I've only been skiing for a couple years, and recently switched to a double boot. Mostly to force myself to get up with both feet in. I was constantly jacking my hips and back up when I was dragging my rear foot. This summer, with a rear boot, I have only tweaked my back once, and my constant hip flexor pain is gone.

[Jski]

A little late on this one, but I've been a rtp guy for 32 years or so. I tried dbl boots (years ago) & found I did not have an offside pull. I've tried a reflex last year after my first sprained ankle & couldn't ski with it either. My back foot/toes would hit that release bar (painfully so) & I went back to Animal front & rtp. I say try something new you may like it or if not stick with what you know.