AWSA Extends Model Year Boats For Events

[6balls]

Increase the tourney entry fee by $20/person with the $20/head going to the promo boat owners who provide for the tourney. No entry fee for the promo owner if they ski.

 

Last tourney I went to no one was poor. I know I flew there and if I sprung for an on-flight meal it would have cost me an extra $20...an extra $20 is not much on top of my outlay including a rental car and the ribs we cooked for our hosts (appreciate the company and no hotel expense). Did we eat out? Yep. Did we drink some beer? Yep. If a buddy at the tourney needed a $20 for some reason ...of course. I don't mean to make it sound like $20 is nothing but if everyone chipped $20 it's not a huge burden. I'll leave it to the promo owners to say if that would be a well received gratitude.

 

The tourney ran 30 skiers, 3 rounds each, each of 2 days so 60 entries...that would be $1200 to split between promo owners plus free skiing at the tourney. Bonus if someone on-site can put them up for the night(s) at their place. Let them keep any practice $ pulls they do the evening before the tourney at whatever price is fair...$5 or $10/pull?

 

The promo owners are dropping a ton of $$ on the boats, putting in a ton of time and travel, and having the difficulty of almost constantly having to sell a high priced, narrow market boat just so tourney skiers can do their thing.

 

Maybe the above doesn't make sense and it could be something else...my sentiment is we should do more than is done currently to support the boat owners who may go to great lengths to get their boat to tourneys...and it should be enough to be meaningful or as they say in accounting terms...material.

[eleeski]

Ugly reality, M2 and W2 are very price sensitive. Add a big boat fee onto the tournament entry and add another nail to the coffin of the future of 3 event skiing.

 

Every tournament I've been to has been critically short of judges. I end up judging every skier I don't have a conflict with. Messed with my performance a bit. Ridiculously slow results as well (tricks). So do we now need to pay our judges as well?

 

This is primarily a volunteer sport. Lose the mercenary mentality.

 

Eric

[LeonL]

OK, full disclosure on my part. You've heard this refrain from many others and for some time. Tournament skiing is declining in numbers. Where we used to turn people away, capping at about 100 pulls a day, we reached a new low (albeit skewed due to weather) of 8 entries. Yes you read right 8. We have been averaging, at 3 round slalom tournaments, around 15 for the last several tournaments. Now to the meat of the matter. I heard from a reliable source that a certain boat company will not give the promo guy credit if the tournaments has less that 18 skiers. (They may all a number). If this is accurate, then small tournaments stand little chance of getting a promo. And I I fully understand that. Maybe @skierjp and @dave2ball can provide accurate input on this. What say ye Jim and Dave?

[Horton]

@eleeski I support any initiative that offers discounts to college kids or recently graduated skier. If we want to not charge this fee to those skiers I support that. That's a different subject for a different thread.

 

As far as judges shortages, I assume you mean shortages a trick judges. I ski events in Bakersfield, Newberry and Sacramento and don't recall a shortage of Slalom judges ever. As you know I'm not against trick skiing but that is way off topic here.

[eleeski]

@LeonL You have a fox, a chicken and a basket of corn to get across the river one at a time - this classic logic challenge is nothing compared to running an eight person tournament. The boat is the least of your problems.

 

There has been a bit of thread drift. AWSA changed the rules to allow pretty much anything with ZO. IWWF has no manufacturer limits. My sweet 11 MC 197 and @MS 's beloved old 196 can be the primary (only) towboat. This will certainly help the problem of running a tournament, reduce surcharges on entry fees and further damage the promo program.

 

I love new boats. But I love tournament skiing more. This is a good move.

 

Eric

[MISkier]

@eleeski, I don't think the AWSA would allow my 2009 Malibu Response LX with ZO. I think they only allowed previously approved boats. My LX would have been an approved hull long ago, but not in 2009. This is why I mentioned having TCs test a boat and allow it.

[eleeski]

@Horton Both Adobe and Imperial had the fox, chicken, corn logistics problem for slalom as well as tricks. OK, both were Class L which require extra judges and ratings but the shortage was real in slalom. I must have done a good job at Adobe to keep you from noticing.

 

The pay extra for the choice to get the new boat might have even more validity now. Along with paying extra for Class L judges.

 

Eric

[Chef23]

I ski in the same region as @jcamp and I find that tournaments are generally a great deal it is usually 45-55 for a 3 round slalom event. These events are almost always class C not the ELR that get run in other regions for more money. That said I would have no problem paying $75 for a 3 round event with some extra money going to the promo owner. For me an extra $20 or $30 for a weekend wouldn't make the difference. In my case it would be times 2 as my son would likely be going.

 

I realize if you have a big family skiing (I do know families of 4 & 5 that all ski) it might be a bigger hit and kids right out of school might need some help.

 

At the end of the day it is a lot of extra work for a promo owner to bring their boat and there should be something to mitigate the time and effort. It is never going to cover their costs but the appreciation would help.

[eleeski]

@MISkier You might have to get approval but the path for that approval exists. Your boat gives a good ZO pull, doesn't it? Hull, once upon a time, was approved? Malibu is still certifying boats? Your boat should be OK.

 

Don't yell at me if I step on the side of the boat to get in.

 

Eric

[skierjp]

@LeonL . The number is actually 17 or less. The Promo Boat may still be available for these tournaments but it's up to the tournament organizer to make any financial arrangements with the boat owner to bring the boat to the tournament.

[Horton]

@LeonL it is not a secret that Nautique changed their policies last year. I know a lot of people thought the sky was falling. I do not get it. Basically they decided to not give the promo guys credit for smaller tournaments. If I was in charge of the Nautique promo program.... I have one boat pulling 100 rides and another boat puller 25 in the same weekend why would I give the same credit?

 

I confess I have never seen a tournament with less than 20 or 25 skiers. I would think an event smaller than that would simply have different expectations.

[MISkier]

@eleeski, there is a rubber and stainless step plate on the gunwale just for that. You'd want to use it, anyway, as there are copious amounts of wax on the boat that could be a slippery challenge.

[LeonL]

@skierjp semantics. Less than 18 = 17 or less. @Horton we do have lower expectations and can certainly understand not being able to get a boat. I could go on to other issues but, that's not for this thread.

[LeonL]

@Horton the number @skierjp put forth was "skiers" not pulls. Let's do a hypothetical based on that. You have 15 skiers at a 3 round slalom and one boat. It pulls 45 but gets no credit. Next weekend the boat goes to a 2 rd 3 event and pulls both rounds of slalom with 22 skiers, 44 pulls and gets credit even it isn't used in the other events. Where's the logic in that?

[skiinxs]

How about a 17 skier two round three event and one boat. Potential for 102 pulls with no credit, and 10 plus hours on the boat. Compare that to a 20 skier single round slalom only, 20 pulls and around two hours on the boat and credit. We have a lot of three event skiers in the Midwest and most tournaments are pretty close on STJ pulls.

[Horton]

@LeonL

In the first event the product (The boat) is marketed to 15 skiers (potential customers). In the second the product is marketed to 22 skiers.

[LeonL]

@Horton I get it, from that aspect but in your previous post you seemed say more "pulls" deserved more credit without regard to number of skiers. I just misinterpreted, I suppose.

[eleeski]

Those 15 are the true hardcore. They are the most likely to buy a new boat - especially if they PB behind it. Big mistake on the factories to not target the likely buyers.

 

Now everyone will want my old Mastercraft instead!

 

Eric

[dave2ball]

@LeonL as mentioned it’s all about exposing the product. Bigger question you have to ask is where is master craft or Malibu? They have boats in your area. When are the other companies going to step up to take advantage of these tournaments???

[dbutcher]

How about devising some credit formula based on tachometer hours.

[Horton]

@dbutcher that sort of thing is up to each boat company

[aussiemc]

Just thinking out loud, why not eliminate "Promo Boats" have a "Tournament Tow Register" where any registered/approved boat owner is compensated for tournament tows. The owners of current year boats get a higher $ tow rebate. This hopefully would still encourage newer boats into the market place, the 1-2 year old boats would still be a saleable item, and also increase (hopefully) the available towboats for tournaments.

[Horton]

@aussiemc I suspect you do not understand the basic idea of the Promo boat. The factories sell boats at a reduced cost and the owners get additional "something" from the factories for taking the boats to events.

 

What you are suggesting sounds like the factories would no longer be helping. That day may come but it will not be a good thing.

[Horton]

@eleeski

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

[Horton]

@dave2ball Here in SoCal my ProStar and Larson's Malibu do a lot of the work*. MasterCraft seems to want my boat at every event I can get it to and I think there may be more promo ProStars in 2018 then there were in 2017.

 

*Non-Promo boats also do a huge % of the work around here.

[LeonL]

@dave2ball we did have a MC for our June tourney and a Malibu for the KY State at our site in July. (Chief driver chose to use a non promo 200 that we have on site for all slalom however). The MC was committed to a tourney in IN Labor Day weekend and the Malibu was already sold. Hey, I don't mean to be complaining or grumbling and I know it is what it is. I've already decided to drop the Labor Day weekend tourney due to poor entry numbers and shortage of officials and go from there.

[aussiemc]

@Horton, I do understand the Promo program. I was thinking that the boat companies would ultimately be paying for the tows, possibly administered by each National / State / Regional committee, that way each company and or committee would have data on tournament /boat use etc.

 

Just a concept off the top of my head.

 

[dave2ball]

@Horton I think that is great that other MFGS are picking up the events. The boats more the better. Makes you a better skier and good for the sport