Whitney's Boot Setup

[ozski]

Over our winter I'm possibly going to run a few sets with the Reflex R-style to see if I can get it to work so I thought I would look around at some of the pro's for setup clues. Whitney's R-style looks like a standard boot modified using a full liner unless I am missing something. Also she appears to be running her back heel a fair way over judging by the amount of the Reflex logo that I can see on the plate. I've always run a bit of angle on the rear boot but not quite that much but maybe that's a hard shell thing? I also wonder what she does not like about the off the shelf R-style?

 

 

[Chef23]

I would also add it looks like she has a pretty good gap between her feet based on the fact that it appears to be a fegular boot and it isn’t snugged right up behind the front boot.

[ozski]

@Chef23 Yeah its wider than the spacing I run which allows my toes to almost touch the rear boot plate. Looks like the front boot release is getting in the way of closing that gap any further.

[Ed_Johnson]

My big worry 3 years a go, when I switched from dual hardshells to the R-Style, is that I would not have as much control. I was told by Andy Mapple that I could get much more COM movement from the R-Style. He was exactly right. So to fool my pea brain into thinking I still had a full rear boot, I sewed a Velcro strap around the top of my regular liner, tightened it, and I still thought I was in a full boot, but now I had so much more movement, and a huge improvement to my skiing.

 

Best move I ever made and safer too !!!

 

[Wish]

My version. And about the same rotation on the ski. Same reason as @Ed_Johnson

 

[ozski]

@Wish I like it, hybrid rubber boot mate! I'm guessing the rubber still allows a release in a fall? Looks like your pretty close in the spacing, amount of rotation is not obvious in the shot.

[Wish]

Rotation is significant. Spacing is very very close. With the highbrid I don't have to buckle as tight so release is excilant.

[mmosley899]

@Ed_Johnson is exactly correct! I changed to the r style boot two years ago and experienced the same thing. And boots closer together is not always a good thing. So the release mechanism may have nothing to do with it. Rotating the foot may have more to do with individual body mechanics than anything else, but it is critical that you find your best stance. I have also moved to a much lower cut on the sides of the boot, further reducing the angular input from your rear lower leg. Looks like she may have lowered hers also. I like the rubber strap that @Wish is using, haven't tried it yet though.

[Jmoski]

While skiing at Rini’s school Whitney told me she prefers as much rotation as she can get with her rear foot, hence the customizations.

[Wish]

What's Joel H set up??

 

[Ilivetoski]

@Wish I believe he is on Fogmans

[Wish]

@Ilivetoski that's no Forgamn boot. That's a snow ski boot.

[ballsohard]

I wonder what type of release he uses? Maybe no release? Seems dangerous if that's the case.

[Wish]

There's some marit there. It moves the support way up into the lager bones of the leg. Have not heard of an achilles tendon issue or ankle crush happening in a snow ski boot (could be wrong here). Now his back ankle, no idea how that survives.

 

[Wish]

That boot must be working. FB post of him next to Nate saying he got 4 @ 41. Hmmmmm...ski boot.

[ozski]

Yep 4@41 he said and on the new ski not the GT.

[Wish]

Correction..he just reported 4.5@41.

[ozski]

Getting off the subject slightly but Nate at the same point crossing the wakes has a much flatter ski than Joel who looks "back" a long way by comparison so I wonder how much the binding setup plays into that. I think about this time last year Howley was on a T-Factor which is also very high on the leg. Good skiing just same, 4.5@10.25 is a great score so the new ski which Siani (3@10.75) is also on as JH posted on Insta.

[JoelHowley]

Hey Ballers. I haven't been here for a while but I want to get back into the forums a bit more.

 

My front boot is a Snow ski boot and the back boot is a fogman with a homemade heel lift.

 

I pull longer than Nate because I can't seem to get my hip to the inside of my turn like he does with makes my turn radius larger and therefore requires me to pull a bit longer.

[Fehlindra]

@JoelHowley is it possible to see some more pics of your bindings and possible release setup i think a few ppl including me tested the snowboot and are curious pls share some pics. and maybe your input pros and cons. This is what i tested few years ago

 

[teammalibu]

Talked to Joel about his boot yesterday after he ran 4 1/2 at 41at the Ridge I think its mostly from Home Depot!

I think he's got it dialed! He ran 2 and 4@ 41 on saturday! And 4,4, and 4 1/2@ 41 on Sunday! Awsome guy I think he had a fun weekend! I am pretty sure it releases when the aluminum angle brackets rip large chunks of the top of the ski off!

[DrBOB]

Those of us who love water and snow skiing have come to see the merging of techniques and equipment in many areas of common physics.

I am a physician who has seen and treated more middle and older age skiers with chronic front foot and ankle arthrosis, chronic ankle sprains, torn peroneus and Achilles tendons, mid foot fractures [Lis Franc], not to mention undiagnosed interosseous ligament injuries from over flexion of the ankle forcing the distal tibia and fibula apart. These are all due to failure to restrict the ROM of the joints involved. [virtually all commercially available water ski binders fail to do this adequately compared to their snow ski boot associates]. Snow ski boot makers are decades ahead in terms of proper joint stabilization while allowing maximum necessary movement. Water skiers can do the same.

 

I am an old National record holder in Men’s 6 and 7 and held both records for over 5 years; but to bring truth to the record, my personal best was getting to the 3 ball @ 39 off/ 34 mph, [sounds better than 2 ¼!] any many reading this do better than that every day on the lake…. So I am not giving anyone advise… just experience that may be useful.

 

I experienced a front foot Lis Franc fracture [which can often end walking let alone skiing] from a freak practice accident. So if I wanted to continue to ski I had to adapt.

 

Most serious water skiers simply take for granted the front foot micro trauma and gradual decrease in ROM that comes from recurrent major and minor trauma. It’s part of the Macho schtick….. but it really doesn’t have to be that way.

 

I use a Dalbello Rampage snow ski boot [which is a great bump ski boot with quick side to side and front back pressures for quick response]. I worked with a professional boot fitter at Winter Park Co. for perfect fit. The boot has a foot bed that uses a forward cant that puts both anterior and posterior ankles in the mid flexion position [unlike a foot flat on the ski that puts the skier in about 2/3 flexion]. This allows more forward flexion. The higher boot [mid calf] transmits side to side pressure much more efficiently as well as forward shin pressure for quick and subtle tip adjustments [especially offside]. The amount of pressure is variable by the top buckle of the front foot. The lowest buckle [across the foot] can be removed if desired if you don’t like a snug foot fit and prefer a little foot movement in the boot. The Dalbello reverses the lowest buckle position for hydrodynamic advantage.

I remove the cuff and cut down the rear boot [see photos] so that side to side pressure is not effected by the rear boot as much, ceding that function to the front foot. But some may prefer asymmetrical side height on the rear boot depending on how much they want from the rear boot. The back foot can heel lift in an anterior-posterior direction but stays heel stable re side to side [unlike a toe piece]

 

The key here is to use a goniometer to measure your maximum flexion for both front and back ankles and set your boot buckle tension to stop about 5 degrees before maximum flexion. This is controlled by the top and mid buckles.

 

If you use a Fogman set up as I do, the front foot flexion is the KEY to out the front protection of both ankles. I have bent a Fogman plate, ripped a boots off a Fogman plate, trying new skis with overzealous enthusiasm, and mainlined my share of bouys. I have never had a front or rear ankle injury since I started using this set up almost 10 years ago. This is because all the force , like in snow skiing, is transmitted to the shin or mid calf; even in those ankle shattering side blow outs at the ball when the entire edge of the ski catches and acutely inverts the ankles.

 

After almost 10 years of playing, I have got a lot of data on different skis, and it works for me. Now that Joel Howly has shown that it works at 41, think about it….. it might just let ski your way into old age.

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[DrBOB]

 

[DrBOB]

 

[DrBOB]

and finally I find Intuition snow boot liners are ideal since they can be ordered specifically to boot size and hold no water

[Wish]

@DrBOB similar concept. Adjustable ankle stops via straps (rear strap assisted Velcro style release) and a higher then usual cuff that is as stucturally stiff as any snow ski boot I've used do to the honey comb structure on the inside of the upper cuff. Was not a fan of this type of release so moved to Reflex. Both boots, rear higher, had elevated heals. Set a personal tournament best on this set up 4yrs of 1.5@39. No ankle injuries since 2001. Warning, do not try this home build stuff.