JoelHowley

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@Dano I am trying to maintain it however if you measured the load it would be reducing. @Horton Yep... Drawings are not my best work.

Dano and Cord are on the money with those last few posts. @Horton Please see ridicule below... --- "There is a maximum amount of manageable load that any individual skier can manage off the second wake"Agreed however that maximum amount of manageable load changes depending on how well you are doing the things mentioned in that edge change video of mine you posted. --- "Leaving the second wake, the more load the better up to the point where the load is unmanageable"Nope… There is a correct amount of load regardless of your ability to manage it. If you are loading harder than Fred at 41 when trying to run 35 it is probably too much. --- "As soon as the handle passes the centreline the handle path changes"Path of the ski changes as a result of the edge change. Handle arc does not exactly have a corner. See link to vid for my thoughts. --- "So if the ski is still on its away edge and the skier is still trying to maintain the same path as before the first wake then the load will spike beyond what the skier can manage leading to separation"If the skier does not have the ability to control load, speed and angle individually there is a risk of separation.To run 39 the direct correlation between load, speed, angle needs to uncouple.Skiers who run 39 manage load, speed and angle as three separate things.I keep my load through the edge change while allowing my ski to gradually point more at the ball and my speed to reduce.Note peak load is still exiting the ball.

@Horton at the risk of getting into semantics "early as possible" has me concerned as there is a middle zone for everything we do in the course. If you deviate too far either side of whatever you are working on something that was helping when done too much or too early will become detrimental. In comparison to skiers running 39 Horton you do have less line tension off the second wake. Stay down, give nothing to the boat then soften your knees after the second wake, keep the handle close and hold the handle longer. Ride the line through your edge change not your ski. Should feel like a swing. If you do it well you will get red marks on your forearms from sliding them over your jacket. Forearms are the first thing to wear out on my wetsuits. When learning this on your easy passes it can help to do a slow and reluctant release of the handle then turn the ball with a bent elbow. If the handle can stay close to you as you turn you must be swinging it up on the boat higher than you normally do. Not easy but most people never learn it and you can be a very good skier without edge changing like I do... especially if you have better turns that I do.

@jipster43 Adam Caldwell is the only reason I have this understanding of my edge change. I was turning with a tight line and edge changing without much load in comparison to what I do now when I first met @adamhcaldwell

Awesome ?

@Cam Toe is lifted half inch and heel is lifted one inch. @hortonI load harder off the second wake and carry more load through my edge change in comparison to other elite skiers because my turns have often put me slightly more down course heading into the first wake. When I get a cracking turn I load less off the second wake and look more like the other skiers. I focus on doing a slow edge change. To do this I resist the centrifugal force trying to throw my ski out to the bank. My goal is to stay close to the handle curled up in a ball so that load I have generated is transferred into the rope and not wasted by bleeding speed at the end of a fast edge change when the ski slams onto the inside edge. I want to swing the handle high up on the boat. My release comes late. It feels like I sacrifice width and allow myself to be pulled narrow still staying close to the handle because I know there is no point reaching if the handle has not swung high enough. Without watching the skier if I were to take a guess at how most people could take a step towards achieving this type of edge change I would say that generally very few skiers are even attempting to maintain full load through their edge change. Most have started to decrease their lean relative to the water well before the second wake and they have very little load to play with when edge changing. Admittedly if you load like I do into the second wake you will need to edge change like I do in order to not get ripped to the inside like a rag doll. If you want to go fast around corners your first step must be to enter that corner flat out.

@D3dude both. I like the rear lifted anyway so not something I feel has limited me.

Hi All, Enjoyed reading this thread. Was interesting to see some of the comments prior to Horton revealing his opinion. I believe Horton is spot on. In comparison to other elite skiers my edge changes are significantly better than my turns and slightly better than my wake crossings. Below I have had a crack at responding to some comments while also paraphrasing everyone to meet my own agenda. @ral - BindingsMy stiff boot has actually decreased the effectiveness of my edge change which is a sacrifice I have been willing to accept given that it has increased the effectiveness of my turns. @Vtmecheng - Stays connectedHorton's comments on this later in the thread are very accurate. I am very heavy on the line through my edge change however I rotate through my turn free from the line. @braceMaker - Ski controlThis is all I really care about. The only time I think about body position is on my easy passes when in training. The only thing I care about on 39 and 41 is placing the ski where it needs to go for me to move in the direction I want to go. Getting the ski in the right spot often requires you to sacrifice your body position. @scuppers - Early edge changeCompared to other elite skiers I edge change late because my turns are often questionable. @ReallyGottaSki - Loads hardYep… This seems accurate. @VONMAN - Tuns 90 degreesMy ski will get to 90 exiting the turns however this is to bleed speed and when I begin accelerating ski angle is much less. @Than_Bogan - No special magicNope… In comparison to my tuns there is some special magic in my edge change. @Vernon Reeve - Tip in then out through the turnYep, seems accurate. Mostly intentional. @slalom frog - Tight turn radiusCompared to other elite skiers my turn radius is a tad long. @Drago - Work zone is all that mattersNarrrrr… I wish this was true haha. @coach3 - Recovers fastYep. Your other comments were also very accurate. @Skoot1123 - Chest pointed down the lakeNot sure about this. I intentionally drop my shoulder more than most elite skiers. @slow - Tall and stacked at 35offLol, yep. @jhughes - Most bent back knee of any proMy raised rear boot causes that. I elevate it to mitigate poor ankle mobility. @MDB1056 - Scraps hardYep, agree with all your comments. Cheers for the kind words. @mbabiash - Why are we talking about such a dud skierLol. Valid point. Horton's response matches my thoughts. @Bruce_Butterfield - Handle controlI have decent handle control. Clinchers have made it worse however they have helped me load earlier so I am keeping them for now.

Enjoyed reading this thread. Would be nice to get one done. This 41 was on my 4th attempt. Got a 3 off the dock.

Yep... This boat sure does have a bigger wake than my closed bow 6L 200. We have the same 654 prop and both hydrogates are flush with the hull.

Thanks y'all. I always get lots of support on BOS but this thread was very nice to read. I undercooked the first two 41s then overcooked my third one in the head to head. Feeling close to cracking a 41.

@bigtex2011 swap that tail block haha. We what to hear what you think.

Tail on measurements get priority. I would love to see some videos of you testing the tail blocks.

@jjackkrash I will make a vid. I keep my fin in the same location when swapping blocks and I measure everything relative to the stock block. I measure my bindings from the location of my back heel projected out to the edge of the ski.

haha, these forums were really helpful to me back in the day. Aussies tend to be pretty relaxed with everything and Ball of Spray showed me that there were other crazy ppl like me who cared way too much about every aspect of the sport.

thanks crew, sorry about bashing your ski Manaze, haha, I tried to resist but it looks way too soft.

Hi Ballers, nice to see this one got some ppl thinking. Solid crash hey, haha. I didn't realize I had forgot to mention the crash until I was editing the vid. @2tracmind cheers for passing on the correct lingo. Much appreciated. I didn't know that but you are spot on. @jercrane You are correct in your assumption that focusing on isometric contraction will not help a compressed body position. This tip is for ppl who enter the wakes in a good position but fail to skip over the trough. If you need to stand up it's time to stand up, (easier said than done I know). For long line skiers this issue normally looks exactly like the guy in this vid. For short line skiers it often causes a small trip on the wakes. "Punch in the gut" seems like a good way to explain what to do with your abbs, I should have a listen to that episode. When you see a short line sker pop the handle their hands often remain in the same place. When longer line skiers pop the handle they will occasionally go close to punching themself in the head.

Thanks, glad you liked it.

Hi Ballers, I edited the vid. The degree to which a buoy pulls down when the boat goes over a cross course cable is less than 1cm so I really don’t feel like that point was worth mentioning. I have only seen this when the water is glass calm and the boat is running a simulation pass. You have to seriously stare at the ball and look for tiny ripples to notice it, (yes, that is what I do with my spare time). The slalom course tolerances are large enough to have a noticeable impact on scores at 41 however I should have made that point separately and not linked it with the original question because I feel like the degree to which any U.S. course is longer or narrower than actual is so small that the impact is not worth mentioning.

@adamhcaldwell haha, yeah I would have turned 2 ball for sure if they had a cable course. I was only about 2ft inside it.

Thanks @Horton @RichardDoane I said "down" not "in". I said down intentionally however if I am being completely honest they may come in a fraction also.

@MattP Not sure if I should get into this, was just trying to be honest and it was meant as a compliment. I see you are of the opinion that “Actual is the goal and the tolerances allow for natural deviation” 99% of courses would be set to actual but records are set at the limits. I don’t see many pro skiers with their handle length measuring actual, maybe I am morally wrong for pushing the limits on my handle length but I’m not sure rules designed to judge intent could ever be enforced. Maybe actual should be the new minimum tolerance for width and maximum tolerance for length. Please don’t be offended by all this. Was just trying to be honest. I will try and return to being less controversial in the next vid, haha. I’m sure this thread must mention all the sketchy European scores. I have never seen any attempt to push limits beyond the rules in the U.S. (apart from maybe buoy height which plenty of people justify as a safety issue) ?

Thanks Crew. Good questions. I will put them all in the next vid.

Hi Ballers, I have started doing some Q&As on Insta and YouTube. If you have some questions hit me up. Thank you all for the kind comments over the years. I am a big fan of this forum and its regular contributors. I read the forum far more than I post. Joel.