Trick bindings

[chrislandy]

As it's the off season here in the UK I've been contemplating next years equipment.

 

I've pretty much given up wakeboarding now due to injury and teaching the kids to ski rather than board, so....

 

I have a set of hyperlite boot/bindings which have very little use, which got me thinking... I've done a lot of searching, but with no results unfortunately. Is there a reason no one uses (or seems that no one uses) a wakeboard binding on a trick ski? Lots seem to use hardshell reflex etc binders, I'm assuming that it takes A LOT to release on a trick with a hardshell, so why not use a nice wakeboard binding instead?

[h2onhk]

Wakeboard bindings typically mount at 2 points on base plate on the right and left side of the riders foot. I assume this is because of the riders stance the forces applied in those directions during different flips/spins etc. A trick ski stance, weight distribution, and body position is fundamentally different hence the baseplate mount is different. I guess if you could swap the wakeboard boot part onto a trick base plate it may work.

[Chef23]

If you could get it onto a base of a water ski boot I think it would work. I am not sure where the mounting support is in the ski so drilling the ski to mount the wakeboard bindings might be an issue. @eleeski might have some information on this.

[eleeski]

Wakeboard boots are different from ski boots. The biggest difference is the footbed. Wakeboard boots need a big soft footbed to absorb the shock of landing from the big air wakeboarding generates. (Edit to note that soft footbeds cramp your feet faster and decouple your feet from transferring pressure to the ski). Also, the boots don't need to be as stiff since the foot placement makes edge pressure easy. A pre release is very bad on a big wakeboard trick so the release characteristics are different. They can be heavier than trick bindings. Add all that to the mounting issues and I don't recommend wakeboard bindings for tricks.

 

I was given a huge bucket of wakeboard bindings a while ago. I put a couple on wakeboards but mostly just cannibalized them for rubber and hardware. If you are creative, you can make them work.

 

Get a hardshell if you want to improve your tricks.

 

Eric

[mmosley899]

@chrislandy Eric gave all the practical reasons you don’t use wakeboard boots on a trick ski, but you can use the parts. And in fact I have a release system for wakeboarding, just haven’t marketed it. If you want to use your wakeboard boots, you need one of my release systems to play with. At you own risk and shoot video! I have used my releasable trick binding on a wakeboard.

[chrislandy]

I'm a fan of keeping my feet fixed to my wakeboard ever since 20+ years ago I had a half release on one foot and ripped the ligaments in my left arch. I've got hyperlite system bindings (the ones that look like snowboard boots) so the boot is on the board and the the chassis fixes to the board and straps the boot down.

 

I'm drawing up the mould for a carbon trick ski to make over the winter break so was going to put M6 inserts in the ski - hence the question about using my current wakeboard bindings

[mmosley899]

@chrislandy the problem with locking your feet in on any water ski or wakeboard is eventually you are going to over stress ligaments or bones and they break! Absolutely you do not want one foot in and one out, that leads to disaster! The older you get the easier it is to break something for most people. And if you have ever had a serious injury, requiring surgery, you will want to find a way to avoid it again.

 

Given that you are building your own trick ski, you can easily put inserts in place to accommodate your boots. However as @eleeski pointed out, performance may not be optimal. Especially as you shift weigh forward and back. But you can use a rubber wakeboard boot without the heel for the back toe plate.

[eleeski]

For flips, you are safer staying in. Offset the skeletal stress with the dangers of an energetic flailing ski. I have the scars from flip releases.

 

Doing toes, sometimes it's best just to get out of everything. Everyone uses a release so getting dragged is rare. But some falls are so fast that you will be underwater loaded up. Getting rid of the ski that is planted in the water buys your release time to happen. Lots of falls have me a meter downcourse from my ski - .15 seconds - and that meter is more than my legs can stretch.

 

I see Reflex bindings with a snowboard strap holding the boot permanently on place. Unclip it for toes. Elegant solution.

 

Don't reinforce the ski for the two inserts of a wakeboard binding. There's so much load it will be difficult and heavy. I've fixed plenty of skis where the bindings have been ripped out of the ski. New inserts and the ski is ready again (not a reliable safety release but an indication of how much load is generated).

 

A last warning about wakeboard boots. Often they use EVA rubber. Wonderful stuff, light, pliable and strong - when new. But EVA stiffens up with time. Release characteristics and comfort change after a year or two. I got around this by drilling dozens of holes in the rubber to extend the binding lifespan when I used EVA.

 

Hardshell with an Intuition liner! Make that work.

 

I use 8-32 inserts - M4 is a similar size. Wakeboard inserts at 1/4 inch (M6) are way too big. I try to reinforce the insert zone with Kevlar cloth (Kevlar is terrible structurally but it helps keep inserts in. Don't use too much as the resin doesn't bond well plus it is impossible to sand). Use glass if you don't have Kevlar as carbon is so brittle that inserts can break out too easily.

 

Eric

[chrislandy]

@eleeski I see what you are saying, I don't plan on flipping or toe tricks, my body can't take it anymore!!

 

Wakeboards use M6 becasue there is only two fixing points, thus need a bit more tensile strength so the board fails progressively rather than the bolt snap, doesn't obviously always work that way though!

 

I've developed a lovely system which uses a cast PU spreader with a special M6 nut and various layers of different CF weaves with layers of Diolen (you don't get the bonding issue that you can get with kevlar) it also doesn't fluff up if you sand through it :) plus it allows a slight flex in the layup similar elongation to break as kevlar

 

I did a whole Masters Degree thesis on the different layups and their bolt tear out :D

 

I've got the feelers out to a friend who lives in the Pyrenees, France for some boot clips etc so I can make my own hardshell

[eleeski]

@chrislandy It sounds like you are going to be able to build a pretty nice ski. A conventional binding will help the evaluation of the ski. Of course, homemade hardshells are pretty conventional.

 

I'd love to see your paper.

 

Eric

[chrislandy]

Here's a couple of pictures of the boards I've made previously, including one of the bindings I was planning on using (but maybe not now!)

 

Base profile

 

 

[thager]

That tiger print would make for a great looking ski!