Which Trick Ski / Binding

[jjackkrash]

I ran a search and found some useful info, but nothing all that recent. Its been a while since I've been on a trick ski, but I'd like to get back into it just for fun. I have a few older kidders with Wiley's trick wraps in the garage, but these are maybe 20 years old.

 

I'm 5'10", 200 lbs. right now. I am working on reducing the weight, but chances are I'll be heavier at the start of any season. I could be as high as 220. At 190 I'm about as lean as I'll ever get.

 

What brand should I look at?

 

Size?

 

Binding set up? (Do I really need a hard shell?)

 

Rubber or hard edge?

 

I probably won't ever try any tow tricks, at least not in the short term. I am too old and brittle for that.

 

Bonus points for what I should get my 12 going on 13 year old who has never been on one and is just learning the course. I think he's under 120 lbs. but growing.

 

[Jody_Seal]

44" Radar, D-3,Masterline or one of those 60" Goode trick skis.

Keep your wiley binding, simple technology..

[ntx]

Hard edge. Rubber edge designed for toe tricks

[Horton]

@Bruce_Butterfield

[Bruce_Butterfield]

You want the biggest ski you can get. Unfortunately the biggest any reputable manufacturer makes is 44". You can draw straws for D3, Quantum or Radar and be happy with any of those. Hardedge for sure.

 

Yes you want a hardshell. Both for better control and comfort. Reflex is the most common, but the new HO shell is really good. Shameless plug if you are RFF and size 10: https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/24072/fs-new-syndicate-hardshell-right-10-11

 

In an ideal world, you would put your son on a 43" or 44" with his own hardshell. However if his foot isn't too much smaller than your's and he is the same foot forward, you could easily share the same 44". An extra thick liner for him would probably bridge the foot size difference.

[Chef23]

Is D3 still making the 45”Xt? I have a 45” Xt that I bought at least 10 years ago. Mine is a rubber edge which supposedly isn’t as good but I am not flipping and it seems fine for the basic wake tricks.

 

If you are really going to ride it and practice go hard shell.

 

Follow Bruce’s advice for your son. When my son was about 130 pounds we got him a 43” D3 hardedge and he is still using it now at 190 pounds and 8 years later. Using the same Reflex also we have just changed boot shells as he has grown.

[jjackkrash]

With a hard shell, can we use the same mount and just switch boots? Or do we need two separate skis if are feet are significantly different size.

[jjackkrash]

Actually, I'm LFF and he's RFF, so that's probably different skis anyway.

[Chef23]

I have a trick where the rear binding was mounted with dual lock so you could flip it around. Until flipping and ski line tricks start that is plenty to hold the rear toe in place.

 

[jjackkrash]

So, 44 for the boy as well?

[Stefan]

54"

 

[jjackkrash]

54" seems pretty extreme compared to 44", is that really the way to go? Am I that fat?

[Horton]

The 54" Goode trick ski is AMAZING as long as keep two feet in the ski. NO TOE TRICKS or line tricks (if anyone besides me does them anymore).

[Stefan]

@jjackkrash just wanted to show there was a larger alternative, sorry

 

[jjackkrash]

@Stefan, no, I am not sensitive, I was just commenting that its a lot bigger. Any input is appreciated and feel free to make fun of me as well.

[jjackkrash]

@Horton, so a Goode for me and a 43" or 44" Radar for the boy might be a good direction? As cool as line tricks are, I don't see me getting to that level. I don't think I ever broke 1600 points in college.

[unksskis]

42" for your son imo. Guys 170lbs are riding a 42" over the 43" Radar. I thought I wanted a 43" but was talked into the 42" being easier to manage overall, I'm 170lbs. You'll be able to sell it if needing to move larger.

 

Bindings I would go with an HO Animal or Wiley's tricker to start out with, hard shell's aren't necessary.

[gsm_peter]

Fwiw

Base skis will produce trick skis next year.

There will be both fiber glas and carbon versions.

(Their slalom skis are great value).

[jjackkrash]

If I order the big Goode, what needs to happen to get a binding on it. Will the HO hard shell just fit on it? Or do you need to drill or modify it?

 

I'd like to go through Wileys for everything I can, and they carry the HO hard shells.

 

It also sounds like Radar is out of 42-44 (and maybe clearing the way for next years trick skis).

[Horton]

@gsm_peter Who???

[Hallpass]

@jjackkrash. The Goode has standard inserts in the board. Bolts right on for Wiley's or Reflex. I did not inquire about the HO. Back binding fits D3 or Wiley's trick toe piece. They sell a back through Goode, but it looks like a Wiley's to me.

 

[gsm_peter]

@Horton

https://www.skimarine.se/Base-Watersports-en

 

[jjackkrash]

I am leaning towards a 44" Radar for me and a 42" for my boy with HO bindings, unless anyone wants to talk me out of this, or talk me into buying that big 54" Goode trick ski for me. I don't know enough to feel strongly about it, but I can get the new 2021 Radar tricks right now from a dealer I like buying from.

 

Thanks for all the input.

 

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Go at least 43 for your son. Bigger is better to learn, so in a perfect world he should start on a 44 until he's tricking over 1000pts or so, then the 43 would be right. 42 is workable but will be harder and less forgiving.

 

You won't be sorry if you get a hardshell, at least for your son.

[jjackkrash]

@Bruce_Butterfield, I could go 44 for the boy; @unksskis says 42 and seems like he has a point. But my preference is to make it fun and easy for him and it sounds like 44" does that best, if I'm hearing right. I don't mind selling it later if he improves.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Yes, I think that's a better plan. He will likely grow into the 44.

 

FWIW, my son is 18 and 170lbs. I just moved him from a 43 to 44 this spring to help with flips and it made a noticeable difference - easier to get air and easier to recover from mistakes. He still uses a 42 for toes. The advantage there is he can turn the smaller ski really fast and he's really stable on toes. His run is just over 6000.

[unksskis]

Your son's back leg shin will be sorry you got a hardshell, especially if he is just learning.

[jjackkrash]

@unksskis, Wiley's trick wraps is your recommendation? (I hate Animals so I am not going there). Would the Radar bindings work for tricks? He loves his Vector binding for slalom, but I am not sure those would work for trick.

[unksskis]

I have an Animal on one, and the Wiley's Trick on another. Tried a Radar Vapor but it didn't feel right for my tricking, although it was comfortable and got the job done. The top seeded M3 tricker, Benny Lohr, was on D3 T-Factors at least for his hand pass. I think it's all a personal preference obviously, so wouldn't hurt to try the Vectors, although I personally wouldn't want an open toe boot, it would be worth a try. Wiley's will be tight, and likely need soap to get in, so may want to factor that in.

[Chef23]

My son has been tricking on a Reflex for more than 10 years and hasn’t had an issue with banging his back shin. He is only about a 2,000 point tricker but has taken plenty of falls.

[jjackkrash]

So, Radar only makes 43"ers and they are in stock right now available for pickup tomorrow. I am probably going that route for me and the boy. I am going to have him try on some different bindings tomorrow then make a decision. Thanks for all the input.

[Sethro]

We are splitting hairs, but I think Radar’s is actually 43.5” one of my ski buddies has that ski and is happy with it. I really want to try a 54” Goode or a Goodman tricker someday. Goodman will make any size I think up to 56” last I knew.

[fu_man]

Vectors will not work well for tricks. Foot can move around too much in those...not tight enough. Wileys are good but a bit heavy. I use wileys on my 2 ski pass and I use a vapor on my 1 ski pass. I am 46 and didn't start tricking until I was almost 40 so I am not doing flips but I do LF on 2 skis......old school! @Horton line trick are still way cool.

[jjackkrash]

I love Vapors. I was not sure if they would provide enough lateral support for spinning moves.

[Horton]

Hard Shell or Wiley's or HO Anamals

[elr]

I have been really happy that I put my son on Reflex/rtp for both trick an slalom at 8 yo 15 years ago - He never had a shin gash even without the cover they have for the release. After the initial investment in two plates/releases the setup becomes less costly then changing bindings as as the foot size changes. The added control was really beneficial for my son as he started trick.

[Sethro]

I've used a Vapor binding on my late 90's Obrien trick ski for many years. Very happy with the binding on a trick ski, but I'm not a high level trick skier.

[jjackkrash]

Update:

 

I picked up a 43" Radar and a Syndicate hardshell. I love the binding. I would not swap for my vapors on the slalom ski, but I can see why its great for trick. That said, I feel like I need to go 20 mph or I'm sinking, which seems too fast. I guess I am a fatty-bo-batty. But I had a good time.

 

Radar only had one 43"er available, which i grabbed for me, but D.W. hooked my boy up with a new 42" factory blem that has a long very visible imperfection down the middle (under the finish) for the price of the binding alone. The boy tried on a lot of bindings, but he really liked the Syndicate as well. So we went that route.

 

My boy got up his first try on the 42"er. By his second set, he looked very comfortable on the ski and was easily crossing and jumping the wake. I gotta say I was pretty proud and he really seemed to enjoy it.

 

Last night I broke down and ordered the Goode 54"er. Hopefully it is here before September. My plan is to move my bindings to the Goode and take it for a spin. If it goes as I expect, then I'll probably move the boy's bindings to the 43"er, and get some Animals for the 42"er for his cousins to use as a house ski.

 

I can't seem to figure out how to attach a video of the boy's second set. But thanks to everyone for all the help and advice.

 

Maybe next spring if all goes well we'll look at some jumpers. Fingers crossed.

[Horton]

@jjackkrash what do you weigh?

[jjackkrash]

@Horton, 203 this morning.

[Horton]

@jjackkrash a 43 is big enough. The Goodman is cool - I would love one but a 43 at 19 mph would be the standard solution for you

[jjackkrash]

@Horton, 19 sure felt mushy. But it has been more than a decade since I've been on one, so maybe I just need some more time on it. Either way, the Goodman is ordered, but I'll try and get some more time in on the 43.