Why water skiing is not on ESPN

[RGilmore]

@Horton - I was NOT opining that it can be done with enough phone calls to anyone. In fact, I doubt it can be done at all - at least, not from any kind of skier-initiative baseline.

 

But I did want to point out that it's not entirely impossible. It would just take several unlikely scenarios to coincide at a fortuitous point in time, AND a patron with lots of dough and a love of the sport. Nobody is ever going to invest the time and $$ required thinking there will be a financial upside. At least, nobody who isn't insane.

 

That said, I would have thought it unlikely that a brand new sport combining extreme skills in gymnastics, parkour, and overall strength would ever become a multi-million dollar fan-based industry - but here we are with American Ninja Warrior.

[unksskis]

Pro Wakeboard Tour Finals aired on CBS Sports Network on Oct 10 at 9am EST.

 

Maybe the MC Pro could be condensed down to an hour production for CBS Sports.

[MDB1056]

Sorry folks but this thread is like talking in a circle. Going nowhere. Investors are very different than sponsors/advertisers. Investors of various types in any business may intentionally do things for an expected loss because it makes financial sense for the bigger picture. Lots of good reasons. Advertisers will not. They're looking for certain levels of exposure of targeted demographics that their models show will generate the ROI necessary for the cost of buying the time. Again, simple cost benefit.

[robmollysilverlake]

I love watching TWBC on YouTube!! I don't have cable, my dad does so I can log in through the app on my TV and watch ESPN, NBC Sports, FSN (our regional sport channel), but his package doesn't have CBS Sports Network. I don't know if the wakeboard tour finals were on YouTube, but there is no way I'd be able to watch on CBS Sports.

 

There are a lot more people with access to YouTube than cable TV, so if you do want more people to watch waterskiing you should promote the TWBC broadcasts on YouTube. I'm guessing most water skiers already know about TWBC, but many other people who would potentially be interested in watching waterskiing likely have no idea when tournaments are or that it's even possible to watch one on YouTube.

[ALPJr]

Winter must be coming.

[jjackkrash]

If you can dodge a wrench, you can round a ball.

[LLUSA]

The last water skiing shown on ESPN was Inside the Alabama Water Ski program with Marty Smith on ESPN Gameday. It cost nothing but just loaning the Alpha Gamma Delta house to ESPN for Thanksgiving dinner. BTW great dinner

[wawaskr]

I can't even recall the last time I watched ANYTHING on ESPN. I don't get this whole thread. Why does ESPN correlate with anything?

[loeweb]

I view skiing about the same as snow skiing. How does snow skiing manage to make it onto tv as much as it does? Because there are hundreds of thousands of people every year that storm the slopes and try it out. That doesn't happen on the water. Some people can't hit the water because they either lack the funds, have no clue how to ski, and skiing on one ski is impossible for them.

 

snow skiing takes less investment to learn and is more accessible for the masses.

without numbers coming into the sport, no one will dump money into promoting it.

 

 

[robmollysilverlake]

I don't know that snow skiing is that much cheaper than skiing, especially if you have to travel to get to a slope. Even in MN I would maybe snow ski once or twice a year on the hills we have, but we waterski way more. Thankfully I had access to an uncle's boat growing up so in my situation water skiing was much cheaper than snow skiing.

[Cnewbert]

Many hundreds of snow skiers can ski just a single slope in a day and have a quality experience in a fairly broad range of weather conditions. Water skiing by contrast is self-limiting by the relatively small handful of skiers that can enjoy a given site over the course of a day and the much narrower range of weather that will produce decent skiing potential. So without regard to cost, entry level degree of skill required or anything else, water skiing can’t reach the nearly same number of people.

[robmollysilverlake]

In my experience in MN we have many more lakes than we have ski slopes and I would guess that more people participate in water sport activities than down hill skiing, tubing, or snowboarding. Obviously not all of the people choose to ski, but I believe they have easier access to water skiing, even if that is with two skis in choppy water, at least in MN.

[kurtis500]

Snow skiing is WAY easier than anything on the water.. Not only is it cheaper but these two for starters:

 

1-you go at your own speed, not the boats

2-your not pulling against anything and you can stay on the skis all day

 

theres no way people go 6-7 hours a day on a waterski...for a week

[robmollysilverlake]

Water skiing is so easy to learn, if you have a pair of wide combo skis and someone who knows how to teach a beginner. My 30 year old co-worker who came to visit one weekend up at the lake this summer had never water skied her in her entire life. She was able to get up and have a blast skiing, I think it took her 2 or 3 tries.

 

Obviously skiing faster and on a slalom ski, especially if you're running a course, is harder, but a double black diamond run is harder than the bunny hill.

 

We even had my cousins' kids who were 4 and 5 skiing behind the boat, (and a 2 year old on the easy ski) you don't have to go fast to ski. No they didn't ski 6-7 hours a day, but when they go snow skiing they don't last very long on the bunny hill either.

[lkb]

For me the part about the of lack wide media coverage that’s really a shame is that the world at large who watch espn or other televised sports is how unknown/under-appreciated Regina J is. Her level of achievement is truly incredible.

[LoopSki]

I’m not sure about snow skiing being cheaper than waterskiing . A weekend up in Tahoe for a family of 4 is about $2000 . Not worth it to me.

[Hallpass]

Snow skiing cheaper than waterskiing? Certainly not for competition skiers.

 

Season passes for my family of 3 over $5K. Team membership for my daughter $1800. Price of lodging for minimum of 60 nights per year - minimum $100 per night with advance reservations and staying in a very simple place. Or, buy a place near the mountain which are hard to find for under $500K in Tahoe. Price of lift tickets for my wife and I when she races at an away mountain $70 to $120 each. That's 4 or 5 races per year. Three new pair of skis, minimum , and usually every year - $700 to $1000 per set. Racing poles $150 per set times at least two sets, replaced every time she grows 3 inches. Pair of race boots every year $200 to $500. Race suits $175 and up. Plus Jackets, gloves, training pants, goggles, helmets, ski bags. Race fees that equal or exceed any water ski tournament. Throw in the extra costs of driving 4WD vehicles as well.

 

Water skiing, I bought a perfectly good 98 Ski Nautique for 13K. I can join the Berkeley water ski club for about $500 per year, or even a private lake for $2-3K per year. I splurged and bought my daughter a KD Platinum with a reflex and a D3trick. Not even close to what I spend on snow skis - every year. Throw in mid level water ski for the wife and me, and we are still way ahead. Even sending my daughter to lessons with top pro coaches, still cheaper than snow skiing.

 

I also agree with loopski. Even a weekend for 4 in Tahoe can cost the new skier $2K - easily.

Lift tickets are $169; ski rentals are $40; hotel is $200 or more; meals, gas, etc.

 

 

[Horton]

@Hallpass I dropped $250k on a TINY ( un-deeded ) lake house because it was the only ski option within 2 hours. Then I pay $650 monthly HOA dues. That is before my first gallon of gas or a boat.

[LoopSki]

I’m lucky I guess in the cost to fulfill my waterskiing. I have to pay a mortgage and an HOA regardless of where I live. So my cost is just the boat and gas. Living on the lake I don’t spend a lot on gas as my ski buddies typically bring enough gas to cover our use. I would say I spend less than $300 a season . Boat payment and insurance a year equals to 4 weekends of snow skiing. The cost of entry vary obviously. I would love to see skiing on TV. I fell in love with it when I lived on the foster city lagoon and watching the shows at marine world. If we want skiing to be mainstream, it needs to be a show not a tournament. It’s needs to be a business. , but I doubt that is what the skiers want.

[Hallpass]

@ Horton. Lot of money. Particularly painful when we know the money could go a lot further in other states. Still not as costly as a home or condo anywhere near slopeside.

 

I love both sports. They have unique experiences and unique challenges. It is what it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kurtis500]

The racing version of ANYTHING will be more expensive than the regular every-day user cost. I raced boats for 18 years, if the average skier had to spend racing dollars to be on the water most would drop the sport overnight.

 

I live in Park City (still have my home in AZ) and know many involved with the US Ski Team up here from parents to coaches to administrators. If you're spending 60 days on the mountain its no hobby and not comparable to the money most people put in to do a sport for fun or the challenge.

[cruznski]

@ESPNSkier it's a world where USAWS has redirected the sport to the ultra high end distillation of maybe 3 boat manfacturers and 6 ski companies. I get that about 40 athletes maybe 60 worldwide will play at all in a broadcast that TWBC will cover

(I THINK TWBC IS THE BEST PART OF OUR SPORT'S MEDIA IN YEARS- COVERAGE, FORMAT VIDEO LOVE IT)

 

Without pull to youth in wider areas (like public water which USAWS has abdicated defending) I really don't want to see 4th gen from private ski lakes or families being the premier athletes in the sport.

Our club has done learn to ski days for literally decades -- support and media from USAWS ZERO .

 

 

[MDB1056]

Time to get real. The days of skiing on TV are long gone. Not coming back. TWBC does a great job which fills the need for those of us who love the sport. Time to close this thread as it seems pretty pointless.

[unksskis]

Cable parks are the ski slopes on the water, and give affordable access to watersports, even offering rental equipment for those that don't have anything.

[Hallpass]

So this did not start out as a Snow ski vs. water ski thread and it should not now. But, to the topic of why not on ESPN vs. why snow skiing is routinely on television: Snow skiing lead sponsors include Audi, Land Rover, Visa, Fidelity, and Charles Schwab. That's some deep pockets, aimed at high income viewers. Proctor and Gamble, Paul Mitchell, Blue Diamond Almonds, Pacifico and xfinity amongst the household names with deep pockets.

Any one of these companies have more sponsorship firepower than CC, MC, Bu, and all the ski companies combined.

[chrislandy]

trying to get it back to ESPN or similar is small pond thinking, the world is vast (7.8 Billion people) and solely targeting one US network will only aim at a few thousand people. Fee generating platforms like YouTube get pretty much worldwide coverage and is certainly the future of "TV" coverage.

[DaveD]

Snow skiing isn't on ESPN either. Mostly, it's on the Olympic Channel and sometimes NBC's sports channel. The only people watching those broadcasts are people into ski racing and people that want to see a good wreck (just like NASCAR).

[unksskis]

Snow skiing is on in the X-games, on ESPN. Snowboarding is often on all the major networks. Although I agree waterskiing will never make nor need to make major television networks.

[Robert_Pigozzi]

I believe if all the money that Worlds Organizers and Federations paid the iwwsf is put in good hands (marketing, business and advertising) to grow the sport we would be back on track with big sponsor and live tv.

[jcamp]

@Robert_Pigozzi I do not doubt that some of that money is misused and could be put to better uses, but I don't think the amount of money is even close to enough to get water skiing back on live TV or secure the support of big-name sponsors.

[Horton]

@Robert_Pigozzi ?

[tjs1295]

I don't have many answers, but can give you a casual observers point of view regarding watching water skiing on television. I watched two TWBC broadcasts over the Summer. I missed the most recent MasterCraft event. They seemed to do an incredible job, and I'm thankful for their hard work. I do know a lot of the names of the skiers competing, and was very interested. For the first event earlier in the Summer, I actually watched both days. It was great skiing all around. I even watched a lot of the amateurs to see what it looks like when they ski. However, after a while I found myself seeing what line length the skiers were at, and would go do something else if it was a longer line. Watching Manon, Regina, Will, JT, etc. cruise through 32, 35, and 38 off wasn't that interesting after a while. Plus with the breaks after each pass, it felt like a very slow "pace of the game". I definitely was glued to the TV for the short line passes. I completely understand that is how the sport works.

 

People have mentioned downhill skiing, and even Formula 1 earlier. I actually have tuned in to watch those events, and I have nothing to do with either one of them. But, they are pretty exciting, and almost non stop. You don't have the downhill skiers taking an easy run down the mountain before finally going for it. It's all out from the start, immediately followed by another skier going all out. Not sure what it is about Formula 1, but it does keep me interested. Those guys seem incredibly talented. I watch less and less NFL every year because the commercials, replays, challenges, etc. have ruined the pace of that game. I do watch some soccer. That sport is an easy target in the US, but it's two hours of almost non stop activity.

 

Like I said, I don't have many answers. Maybe it's just the way the competition set up is? But, I don't see how you do it any differently.

[RAWSki]

Just realizing we probably could have gotten an hour of the recent and exciting Slalom finals on ESPN2 tonight (Election Night). BUT the Pro Shuffleboard Federation was better organized and had some sort of sponsor??

[jeidmann]

I don't think it's a matter of ESPN, I lead organizations in strategic planning, and as an avid waterskier, it frustrates me to no end that this sport doesn't have more of an audience. First, there is a hodge-podge of organizations and outlets- USA waterski, IWWF, Pro Slalom, etc., and the content is scattered and disjointed.

IMO, All the organizations should get together and standardize the sport - domestic/international, amateur/pro... and should model it similar to Formula 1 racing (that has a huge following and very few fans who actually race)... F3, F2, F1, etc. One of the things that makes F1 so successful is that it focuses a lot of attention on the athletes, and the competitiveness of the teams, that's what keeps the fans coming back. Just go to the F1 website and take a look, it's almost a perfect model for waterskiing. https://www.formula1.com

Heck, I have a hard time just finding dates and streaming for events (the Masters wasn't on the Pro Slalom website until just before the event, nor was the info on their website). Is there an event near me? Can I get tickets? Where can I stay? Can I ski? Which pros will be attending?

Wouldn't it be nice to go to 1 website for ALL information - news, event dates/times/streaming, athlete bios/info/social media/sponsor links, videos, forums (like this one), downloadable calendar, etc. - a one-stop-shop!

And perhaps waterski courses should be treated like golf courses - public, private, exclusive, etc. I'm sure that will stir up some controversy, but I'm also sure it can be developed in a way that works for everyone if we all put our minds together, and public courses with "tee times" could go a long way to overcome the hurtle of buying a competition ski boat and finding a place to ski. Or a hybrid public/private where a course is accessible to the public on specified dates and times and folks pay to use it. And how about more driver development?

College is another great place to turn youth on to the sport. Any investment there would have a high rate of return.

One of the best things about this sport IMO is that we have amazing access to the Pros, it is unreal when you think about it. That provides an opportunity to be leveraged to make a pro's living more lucrative while stoking the amateur's passion for the sport.

All I'm saying is that if a strategic plan was developed with all stakeholders represented, it would go a LONG way towards reviving the sport.

[lpskier]

@jeidmann Try this: https://www.waterskiprotour.com/

[S1Pitts]

Watch the opening video (advertisement) from Correctcraft on the watch masters live link. Maybe the problem of rebuilding slalom starts right there.

[Svfara_1]

In Canada we have cottage life tv. Would be a perfect place to watch a waterski event, no?

[unksskis]

@jeidmann the problem is the manufacturers and industry run the sports and the various organizations. They will never sit down for an overall strategic plan, we're at the mercy of their individual strategic business plans as a sport.

[rogerw]

Blimey, watching the ladies jump at the mo - bearing in mind the moans about the conditions at the last Worlds. More backwash than at my old ski lake which had vertical walls (pretty much)

[Intheday]

Just asked my teenage son, who skis at a reasonable level if he watches water skiing on online. No, he would rather watch wakeboarding. Slalom is boring who wants to watch someone ski around six buoys. Jumping is not bad and he likes tricks but would rather watch tricks live.

 

What skiing is up against is best summed up in his last comment “I would rather watch wakeboarding its cool”

[liquid d]

Tournaments could be cut down to an hour/90minutes and put on tv, espn 5 or whatever. it needs to be sold as surfing/beach volleyball/etc is....with a dash of good looking young adults in great shape...and Just need the advertisers to pay for it...What's it cost to put on an hour of cornhole?

You only need 38 and beyond for men....35 and beyond for women to be on TV. It's only 16 seconds, and you cut all the waiting on a broadcast. You redo the voiceovers for broadcast TV and roll.

Or maybe it's the sport that pays espn..idk...can't be that huge of a deal with sponsors.

WTF, cornhole makes it happen!

[igkya]

Bring back Hot Summer Nights!

[APB]

Gotta get rid of the WWF announcing.... wow cringe worthy. Being onsite listening to that for 3 days would be terrible.

[LoopSki]

Cant believe I came across this on ESPN today. Sad world we live in nowadays.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BG1]

I wonder how many of that bunch have done SS and background checks. Maybe we need to start an Air Slalom league.

[ScottScott]

Never mind

[Kelvin]

Would you really watch a 1 hour wrap up show 10 days after the event when you already had access to the complete webcast and know the results?

[Andre]

I think in a near future,webcast are gonna be pay-per-view.

[MDB1056]

PPV would be just another step backwards for the sport, that’s already continuously struggling to get viewership

[Drago]

@Kelvin Yes