Hole pattern dilemma

[Dysco]

I bought some new radar bindings (flex frame) for my D3 last summer and liked them very much. My '13 Strada's Strada bindings (aluminum frame) were also in need of updating. I recently found a killer deal on closeout Vectors ($50 each!) and bought them. My issue is the rear holes don't match up at all and are actually completely covered. If I rotate to expose one hole, the plate is passed the edge of the ski. I know I can drill, but if I adjust the front at all to adjust to the new bindings, then it's even more drilling. Not sure what to do here. Thoughts?

 

[skialex]

You have to slot the holes even slightly. Rear Feather frames can only be turned very little, whereas the aluminum one can be turned a lot more and you can also turn the boot on the plate...

[BraceMaker]

Buy a radar sequence plate - makes the whole switching ski game much easier.

[The_MS]

The feather frame won’t come off the boot like the aluminum frame. Just drill the holes in the frame where you need them and screw them down.

[rbuss4]

What @The_MS said. I have had to do this multiple times

[Dysco]

Ok. Drilling the plate is probable. Last thought, drill new holes in the ski with inserts for a better option and varieties of binding placement? I've got 14" of ice here, so I have some time.

[Hallpass]

I'm not a ski technician, but drilling a $50 set of clearance bindings vs. drilling a $1500 + ski would seem like an easy choice to me. ICBW

 

[mike_mapple]

I know the feather frame boots are only meant to fit on the Radar Skis, but have not run into them not fitting maybe @brooks might have some insight for you.

 

[rbuss4]

Vector rear did not fit the holes on my Senate Pro build that I bought last fall. same with RTP on my kid's Vapor Lithium. Seems Radar hole patterns are not standard

[RAWSki]

Radar changed their 4 rear insert pattern about 5 years ago to handle the feather frames.

They state FF only fit Radar skis from a certain year forward. I have put them on new Goodes without issue but have had to enlarge a 1-2 of rear holes to make my wife's fit her skis. Super easy to do, the radar screws have large heads that provide a secure hold.

[ALPJr]

Off topic... a while back there was a thread that asked the question... why isn’t there an industry standard for hole patterns?

[The_MS]

If I was making and selling bindings, I would make sure it fit all hole patterns. I would have slots running the length of the plate and put a Mikro-just on each one.

Simple and a money maker.

[Dysco]

@RAWSki Seems like an odd situation as FF fit on my D3. But, as mentioned above, clearance bindings - so drilling a few sets of holes hopefully isn't a strength issue, it does appear that I'll have to drill directly through the "seam" on the back of the plate where it goes from thicker material to thinner.

[BraceMaker]

The fronts are all the same and have been a number of years. My last that wasn't was a Connelly F3 around 2000.

[RAWSki]

@Dysco below is a note you will find on line from a lot of ski shops. (This one was WakeHouse) We have also learned that the small rear FF don't fit on many other brands because the plate is too short and won't reach the back holes. (Radar includes two extra) On the bright side I have gotten pretty good at installing extra inserts.

 

***Radar Feather Frame FRONT Bindings are built to mount to most manufacturers skis. REAR Feather Frame Bindings will only mount to 2011 and newer Radar Skis.***

 

 

[DavidN]

As much as I like Radar bindings (and their stuff and their support and all), the Feather Frame never made sense to me.

[Dysco]

@RAWSki this is a 2013. Size XL 2018 bindings.

[Dysco]

Well, some good info. Prior to breaking out the drill bits this morning after reading a few more replies, I decided to contact Radar.

It was said drilling new holes and inserts is preferred to drilling the plate (in the locations I would have needed to). The ski strength should not be affected.

So that's the plan moving forward.

 

[buoyboy1]

@Dysco - I am a bit surprised they said the ski strength would not be affected. Any time I had a ski break or saw a broken ski, the crack always propagated through the inserts. Not sure how close new inserts will be from the existing ones but I would want to drill through the plate instead of the ski. (Less expensive to replace).

[Dysco]

@bouyboy1 I thought similarly. I triple checked in my conversation. They had photos and measurements of the holes and said drilling through the plate would be more of a strength/failure risk. Certainly interesting, but they probably have some experience with this one.

[skialex]

https://us.v-cdn.net/5017617/uploads/editor/ir/ot1cer5mwo07.jpg

 

Get one of these... it will strengthen your plate, or fabricate one yourself out of an old plate..

[Hallpass]

Really interesting! Seems so counterintuitive. That's why they are the experts.

 

 

[BraceMaker]

@Hallpass I've put 2 to 4 new inserts in every ski I've had for years. Put 10 in a goode. Every backcountry ski I set up gets drilled and quiverkillered.

 

My old nomad with 4 extra inserts skied that ski 6 seasons no failures.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think what is interesting is Radar saying to drill not send it to them.

 

 

[Dysco]

@BraceMaker they did suggest that I send it to them. I was a downhill ski tech for 4 years and put in hundreds of inserts. We talked it over and they are sending me inserts and I will take care of it.

[aupatking]

I’ve seen it multiple times, the feather frame not fitting on Radar skis. Odd design. My ski partner blows through Radar ARTP’s pretty quick. He loves them, but I’ve never seen someone who takes care of his equipment wear things out as fast as him. And to be clear, I’ve seen him burn through most of the big brands, not just Radar. He drills holes in the ARTP plate and has never had one fail. I’m with the other guys, I wouldn’t drill my ski. If it’s that much of a concern, send the Feather Frame back and get the Aluminum frame. It will definitely fit.

[skialex]

It’s so much easier to reinforce the rear plastic with wider washers or a small metal sheet than drilling the ski... but then again it’s an old ski, so since you have the knowledge to do it right... do as you like.

[Robbo5252]

I thought I would ask here rather than start a new Thread.

 

I'm looking @ buying a 2017 Radar Lyric Rear binding to put on the front of a 2017 Radar Lyric. Are the holes the same Width? I understand the plate is longer on the rear binding and it doesn't have the extra set of holes (will look to drill them).

Would this work?

 

Its to replace a friends binding as my wife had to be cut out of it (Broken leg).

 

Cheers

 

Robbo

[S1Pitts]

I overlaid a metal front plate over a metal rear plate. It appears that a rear plate does not fit on front location even with drilling new holes. Rear is not wide enough at mid point

[skialex]

@Robbo5252 it won’t work, rear plates are longer and narrower. If it’s on an aluminum plate and you have access to a front Radar plate, it is only a swap using just a screwdriver. (Thread locker would be good to use). Or any aluminum front plate would do if you have the skills to drill it right for this boot.

If the Lyric is a featherframe… you can not put it in the front. Can be screwed on a front plate using screws and nuts (prong nuts or similar, better) and cut off the excess plastic but it won’t be pretty. And I wouldn’t suggest doing it, unless you already have the boot seating around and you don’t want to buy a new one and you know what you’re doing.

The one time I did this, I put a fifth screw through the footbed with a prong nut type nut and some liquid rubber on top of it. To be more securely fitted and avoid any play.

 

[Robbo5252]

Cheers for the responses. Its on a feather frame so no luck.