Super busy tournament season?

[Horton]

I looked at the local events this summer at the lakes where I normally attend and holy crap it is a LOT of rounds. If I were to go to every event and ski every round it would be 49 slalom rounds of slalom under 18 different sanctions.

 

Is this just my area or this looking to be a big year nationally? @JeffSurdej ????

[The_MS]

Lucky to have access to boats I guess

[Horton]

@The_MS No the boat problem is now super critical out here but that is a totally different topic.

[The_MS]

After looking at the event schedule in our area yesterday we talked about possibly putting on another event but the boat issue put a hold on that idea.

[Horton]

@The_MS Now you know why I have been beating this drum for the last few years. Funny that the Southern Region pushed back on the idea of compensating boat owners.

[The_MS]

We are willing to compensate but finding a willing boat owner has been tough. We found someone last fall to bring one over from Tallahassee but Hurricane Sally shut us down.

[MattP]

I already have 15 tournaments on the books and more than likely will add another 5-7. I normally go to around 20 a year. Things in the south seem normal so far.

 

@Horton the Southern Region pushed back on being forced to compensate promo owners with an hourly rate. We agreed there should be compensation in different ways (hours, entry, food, hotel, travel $) but that should be negotiated between the LOC & the owner, not mandated by the AWSA.

 

@The_MS as much as you complain about the issue at your site have you or any of the other guys on the lakes looked into becoming a promo owner or going in together on one?

[lpskier]

You can now use any previously approved tow boat with ZO version R or S for all events without need for REVP approval, except for regionals and nationals.

 

I have a 2015 200 with single puck ZO and a 5.7 and am willing to bring it to select tournaments.

[skierjp]

@The_MS Mark, I sent you a PM

[skierjp]

Actually as of now the Southern Region has 58 (37 in FL ) and last year we had 98. It is a little early but traditionally when we had a printed Regional Guide most of the tournaments would already be scheduled to make the guide book. Pop up tournaments makes it hard to schedule Promo Boats.

[Ali]

Miami March Madness has 2 boats for our class C. Ski Nautique '20 and a MC '19 neither boats are promos. We are full with 30 skiers and 4 on the wait list.

 

Cheers

Ali

[klindy]

@MattP has it right about the Southern Region opinion. In many areas of the Southern Region we dont have the same situation with boats as other parts of the country.

[Horton]

@klindy yes I understand. Many ski school boats take up the slack in Florida.

 

The grass roots of the sport must model itself completely differently. The sport as a whole must find a different model for tournament boats or the sport will die.

[RichardDoane]

being able to use any previously approved ZO boat with RevS or R will make it a lot easier to get boats for local events, don't get hung up on the $$$$ aspect, some people with newer boats just like to see them get used and people enjoying themselves in a sport we all love to participate in

[skierjp]

@Horton Not as many as you think.

[ALPJr]

About average for the past few years in the East region. 36 tourneys over 15 weekends, June - Sept. So far none in the first two weeks of August. Could be a few more popping up once the season gets going.

[MISkier]

For 2021, Michigan will have:

 

 

18 AWSA tournaments, including the State Championship

2 Collegiate tournaments (which will be converted to AWSA class C if season is cancelled)

4 Novice Night events to get new skiers on a private slalom site

1 Junior Development Clinic

1 Charity event including slalom course, other towed watersports, and show skiing on a public lake

 

This schedule is June through September.

[Horton]

@skierjp how many total promo votes are in the state? If promo boats and ski school boats are not pulling tournaments are personal votes pulling tournaments?

[MattP]

@Horton I think the only ski school boats that pull tournaments would be pulling tournaments at their own sites, Swiss, Fluid (Action - Dealer), Travers, McCormicks. These boats rarely leave the site of their business to go pull other tournaments, but these sites are responsible for a number of tournaments in central Florida. It is their business to pull skiers & tournaments are a way to promote their site/business.

[Horton]

@MattP that is exactly my understanding. So the model in Florida is completely different from the rest of the country. It is my firm belief that the whole rest of the country needs to find a new model for tournament tow boats. I put these two points together because I don't want influential people in Florida thinking there is not a problem for the rest of the country and influencing the greater sport when actually there is an absolute crisis outside of Florida.

 

Granted there are pockets around the country where there are plenty of tournament tow boats. there are also pockets around the country where there are nowhere near enough promo boats.

 

In California, south of Sacramento, off hand I can only think of three promo boats for 2021. There are absolutely no ski school boats. There are 30 sanctions (some one day and some two) in this area for the year.

[bishop8950]

At our lake we have 4 sanctions up from 2 for the last 5yrs at least.

[Horton]

@bishop8950 you are going to use the club boat?

[MattP]

@Horton I do think the Southern Region is the outlier & possibly South Central.

In the Southern Region I believe every state has at least 2 or more promo boats.

 

Why can't the ski school model be used and transferred into the ski club model?

[Horton]

@MattP school boats are great but there are hardly any outside of Florida. Club boats? How many of those are there nationally? I would assume that club and school boats will only pull events at their own lake.

 

In California, south of Sacromento there are zero club boats or school boats. Here are maybe 4 club/school boats in the northern 1/2 of the state.

 

I bet there is not a total of 10 promo boats in the whole western region.

[RichardDoane]

@horton - ski clubs that want to have events just need to use a club members boat, the days of the big 3 boat companies "supplying" promo boats all over the country are over. Skiing is expensive, and the skiers involved will just have to pay a little more in a different way for our sport to continue. Change can be a good thing.

[lpskier]

@MattP I understand that Ski School boats are purchased at a sharp discount and they expect to put a lot of hours on them. And the boat and operation costs are fully deductible. These factors may or may not apply to club boats.

[MattP]

@Horton more saying that we should be moving more to the club model on built ski lakes over each owner buying their own boat. You can only run 1 boat at a time it something I've never understood.

 

If the clubs/schools are the ones that want to invest in the boats & not take it outside their lake to other events besides Regionals & Nationals I would not have a problem with that as long as those clubs host events.

 

I think we have 4-5 club boats in GA alone.

@lpskier yup I get that, but I think that only applies to a few of the bigger ski schools. Times have changed for them too.

 

Interesting on the promo numbers in the West I would have thought there would be more. But do we have to look at who is in control of the promo programs? Who decides who is in and where the boats go? Should they be distributed differently? Is it a dealer issue or a Mfg problem? Are they first come first served or the good ole by system? Should they actually look at tournament data and place boats where they are actually needed?

 

Ok nerd time. I have been working on some data. This is still preliminary but very close.

 

312 sites held 5,235 sanctioned AWSA events (C,E,L,R) in the past 10 years in 42 different states. (I removed class F)

 

Total number of tournaments by Region 2010-2020. 5,235

West - 1448

Southern - 1399

MidWest - 1045

South Central - 731

Eastern - 612

 

Total number of sites by Region 2010-2020. 312

MidWest - 82

Southern - 77

Western - 76

South Central - 45

Eastern - 32

[ALPJr]

Slightly off topic... Sounds like there may be market for a ski school in southern CA?

[lpskier]

@MattP I think one of the main problems is manufacturing capacity. Companies can only make X boats a week. At one time, the tournament ski boat might have been the top of the line product. Now it is the bottom of the line with wakeboard and wake surf boats being more profitable for both the manufacturer and the dealer. I am told (maybe @skierjp has better info) that at one time Correct Craft had as many promo boats per year as Nautique makes total ski boats now. This may include ski school and camp boats too, I don’t know. I think Nautique makes somewhere around 200 Ski Nautiques at present. @skierjp would know this number too.

[MattP]

@lpskier you are correct on costs and mgf choosing to use line time for higher profit boats. I get that and I dont blame them.. It is a business. My previous post was to highlight that promo boats may not be in areas they actually need to be. I also think that the trend of all wake/surf boats going down the line will change once all the covid buyers put their boats on the used market. Slots will be plenty for ski boats on the line and the mfgs may be actually happy to make them. We are the only sport that "demands" new boats every 12 months.

 

Is there an actual list of all 3 legit promo owners and where they are located?

 

I was in a meeting last year where I was told that all 3 manufactures combined (4 models) made 200 or just under 200 ski boats in 2019. I pushed back on this but was told it was accurate. I think it may have left out promo or international numbers but I never got an updated answer.

[Horton]

@MattP in terms of the promo programs - it is what it is. Promo boats represent an expense to the manufacturers and the dealers. You or I or USA water ski is not going to tell the three boat companies how to run their programs. the simple fact is we need to find a way to supply boats to tournaments without always expecting promo boats.

[The_MS]

@MattP we had a MC last season but from what I understand, they cut the program. He now has a 21 but no commitment for compensation. I was a CC promo guy for 10 years so my time was put in. I also don’t have the money needed every year to upgrade.

@skierjp I will call u.

[teammalibu]

Shit @The_MS you have enough boats over there to switch boats every 4 skiers!!

[klindy]

@MattP ive asked for a promo boat owners list (it can be kept confidential to AWSA only). I also would like to literally see where the boats are located in the country.

 

I totally agree there needs to be a different paradigm but without more info it’s really like throwing darts blindfolded.

[The_MS]

We now have Nautiques for our May event and also the Sep event. It’s awesome that they are helping out. If any Malibu’s or MCs promos want to show up, we will gladly set you up and comp you entry

[ALPJr]

Up to 41 events over 17 weeks in the East.