How to ski near your PB in every tournament - find your PB body weight

[swbca]

I can't know what's best for you, but in decades of competition, my best tournament seasons where when I was "light", at the low end of my historical weight. At 175 pounds I consistently had better tournament seasons than at 185 pounds.

 

Some great skiers bulked up with muscle and they lost consistency. Regina and Andy are counter examples, where the added weight was a net gain in performance because the additional strength was targeted to improve their skiing.

 

Light works . . there is Nate Smith at 6'2" 165 pounds doing OK (on a 67" ski). Charlie Ross, a 130 pound, 15 year old ran 1 at 41 off at the 2021 Swiss Pro tournament.

 

What ever your age division, I think light is better for skiing your best in competition. Extra weight that isn't muscle to help your skiing adds unnecessary inertia and unnecessary momentum that you have to overcome during each 1.3 seconds of acceleration and 1.3 seconds of deceleration separating each slalom score.

 

Bought a boat last October to restart skiing . . . dropped 15 pounds to 170 since then to get "ready". And the new skis are lighter. That's another 5 extra pounds skiers don't have to drag around in the course. Remember the skis that would float with only 3" of tip pointing straight up ?

 

For all of you working at every angle to ski better, what about your Weight ?

Who uses training methods known to be better for strength than for muscle mass ?

Who "manages their weight" to be more competitive ?

[keithh2oskier]

Yeh but buying a new ski is more fun than dropping weight...

 

I need to loose at least 10 lbs...

[Andre]

Completely ruptured my Achilles mid season in 2016.

Started making craft beers while my 4 months off work.

Came back in 17 , 25 pouds heavier.

That was a really bad idea...

Light is always better...(except for beers!)

[swbca]

@Andre You are the second person who has describe Achilles injuries in slalom. The other person severed his Achilles in a bad fall. I am just getting restarted in competition this summer and the new boots without a release seem dangerous to me. I have tried on boots that I couldn't get off even with the laces loosened. I don't know what happens in a fall.

 

Was you injury related to a binding/boot not letting you go in a fall ?

[Horton]

Lighter is better. I struggle with this but it is not a magic bullet. If I was 5 lbs heavier I do not believe it would make a difference. 15lbs? Well yes but that is a LOT.

[ScottScott]

I lost about 8 lbs jan/feb.....didn't pick up any buoys....WTH!!!!

[tjs1295]

Forget skiing. I manage my weight so I can get a PB in life.

[skiboyny]

I think your right about lighter being better but maybe not for the fact that your lighter. I think it's a strength to weight ratio. Body fat is non functional. Most people carry much more body fat than they understand. It's very difficult to turn that into muscle especially as we age. A loss of 10lbs will probably result in a small loss of muscle but most will be non functional body fat. You can easily increase your strength to weight ratio by losing weight and that seems to pay big dividends in skiing.

[swbca]

@tjs1295 Good point. Most people need a tangible sustained motivator to loose or keep weight off. "its good for me" doesn't usually last long for most people. Obsession about competition in any sport is my sustainable motivator.

 

You didn't really say "forget skiing" did you ?

[swbca]

@skiboyny Strength to weight is the key point, as long as the particular strengths are useful for the sport.

 

Weight as a stand alone factor can be a deterrent when taken to extremes. Take a gifted slalom skier who builds his body up to 230 pounds, all muscle. He has the strength to weight needed but he overloads the boat and ski with all his weight and strength and doesn't ski as well.

[tjs1295]

@swbca I did say that, but I should have said forget WATER skiing :D . What I really mean is that I need to be light (or good strength to weight ratio like @skiboyny said) for many other things that require it more than water skiing (at least at my level). Cross country skiing, trail running, pole bounding, mountain biking, hiking, chasing elk at 10,000 feet after coming from 1,500 feet, machine rowing, walking, being my best at work, etc. You know, life things.

[swbca]

@tjs1295 I have a lady cousin who regularly cross country skis UP major California ski areas, and has climbed mountains where everyone is on oxygen. She would fit right into your group of friends.

 

You said "chasing elk at 10,000 feet after coming from 1,500 feet" tell us you had motorized help getting from 1500 to, 10,000 feet.

[buoyboy1]

@swbca I dropped 15 lbs last year just to see how it impacted my skiing (I was already lean at 185). What I noticed is that it did not impact my PB but my body felt like I could ski nearly every day. I also had a lot less aches throughout the year. I typically ride a 67" ski but getting down to 170 I also tried a 66" since I was starting to feel like the ski was a bit big. Although I liked the way the 66" turned, it was more work behind the boat so I stayed with the 67". My conclusion is that if you are already fit/lean where you are, you will not see much improvement to your PB, however it should allow you to ski more sets throughout the year so in the long run (theoretically) this should improve your skiing in general. Hopefully, year two with my current lower weight will begin to pay off (PB-wise). No matter how lean we are or how much of a spare tire we ski with you still need good technique in order to improve, especially when the line gets short. I think weight is just one part of the entire ski improvement equation IMO.

 

I also recall listening to a podcast last summer that Marcus had with Will Asher. Will mentioned that he experimented with skiing lighter and heavier and settled somewhere in the middle so for him it might of been where he simply felt the strongest but he did not elaborate.

[teammalibu]

I am on a diet, actually i am on two diets because one doesn't give me enough to eat!

[tjs1295]

@swbca Ha! Yeah, I wasn't very clear about chasing elk. I meant I drive from my home in Wisconsin to Colorado, then hunt the next day. Low altitude to high altitude. It's hard enough for me to breath without being overweight. Once in Colorado we're around 7,500 feet going up to 10,000 feet. That part is all done without vehicles, horses, or anything else. Just human power. So is all the packing out. Nothing unique for those that live at altitude, but it's a challenge for those of us who don't.

[swbca]

@buoyboy1 I get the part about feeling better and being able to do more after losing weight.

you also said "What I noticed is that it did not impact my PB"

 

Skiing lighter didn't impact my personal best score, but I skied my PB more consistently, running 35 off in 7 consecutive tournaments one season, instead of being hit and miss with more weight. With all those try's, I never got far at 38 off.

[buoyboy1]

I never did improve my PB but I skied more consistent and more frequent.

[Fastguy888]

As a former personal trainer and lifelong athlete myself, I find the body composition of skiers very interesting. Despite course skiing being similar intervals to football; I think its because skiers carry the largest load in a isometric "stacked" position that major muscles stay compact. Probably skiers arms make the largest isotonic movement and by my observations skiers biceps and deltoids are bigger proportionately than their back, lats, traps, core that may carry a larger load but move less and therefore don't gain as much proportional size. It would be cool to see side by side video of an equal height and skill heavier skier vs lighter skier making the same pass and if/where there are advantages and disadvantages.

 

 

 

[jimbrake]

This better not involve drinking less beer, because if it does, then just go ahead and f......... Ah, gd it, this better not mean drinking less beer.

[PUoldmaid]

Yes, @jimbrake! If this sport stops drinking beer I'm all in on summer hockey leagues.

[jimbrake]

Yeah, but seriously...not sure if less weight would up my scores, but it would certainly ease the load on my body and that would be a very good thing. I can eat really well, burn cals a variety of ways, but every single night that one, really nice IPA or DIPA is just sitting there staring at me. That does not help. I'm all in on light and strong being the way to go. Rockclimber strength/weight.

[GaryJanzig]

I dropped 18 pounds last season. I set a personal best at a tournament over Labor Day weekend. I have been watching the pros on TWBC. The common denominator is both the guys and the girls are all very lean and muscular but not bulky.

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@swbca I fully agree lighter is better, but there are many other factors involved. It is simply not a valid comparison when you state "running 35 off in 7 consecutive tournaments one season, instead of being hit and miss with more weight." You were in your 20's then right? Its a whole different kettle of fish a few decades later.

 

I'm sneaking up on 60 and am only 15-20 lbs heavier than when I got out of college, If I dropped 20 lbs would I ski better.? Certainly. Would I get a new PB? NFW.

 

The unfortunate reality is that for most of us old codgers, its much easier to spend $2k on a new ski than it is to drop 10 lbs. The new ski would probably not get anymore buoys. 10lbs might get another buoy or 2. But its REALLY hard to give the up the adult beverages at the end of the ski set:)

 

For the elite athletes in their prime, strength to weight ratio is definitely critical. But technique and the mental game are more important IMO.

[ScottScott]

You can still have the beer at the end of the set, just don't eat anything.

[swbca]

@Bruce_Butterfield You said the performance differences I experienced in my "20's" when being "light" vs. "heavy" don't apply in the same way as a senior. That that other factors are more important. I have competed in SailBoat racing and Motor racing. If you are driven to do your absolute best because you like being in the 95th percentile competitively everything matters; Mental, Equipment, Physical and Technique training.

 

For skiing, being light as a senior is more relevant, because while other performance attributes have diminished, acquiring the weight advantage is as tangible as using a great ski.

 

Most important, @tjs1295 reminded us that being at the light end of your weight range is good for a Personal Best life. Fewer limitations on the things you can do.

 

Several are concerned that weight control would affect their access to to beer and cocktails. Just don't do a lot of skiing or posting on forums after 2 or 3 cocktails.

[skiboyny]

@Bruce_Butterfield All things being equal strength to weight is important for all skiers. Technique can not be underscored. Using your example you gained 15-20 lbs since collage, but as you've aged you've lost up to 20% of muscle mass thru the ageing process. Put those 2 factors together and there is impact that you probably don't realize. You were not only lighter when you got out of college but stronger as well. Thru the years, you no doubt improved your technique, but imagine if you now had the same strength to weight ratio as then. Not saying it's even possible but if it were, I"d be betting on a new PB for you.

[adkh2oskier]

I hope to put this theory to the test this season. Lost 10 lbs last year but didn't get to any tournaments. Back to college HS & college weight. But as @skiboyny pointed out at my age(last couple yrs of M6) I have lost some muscle mass. The loss of 10lbs did seem to help w XC ski endurance and uphill climbing while BC skiing. Fingers crossed for Water ski benefits. Hasn't snowed in almost 2 weeks, hop to have the boat in and start skiing this weekend!

[jimbrake]

@ScottScott - I like your plan.

[matthewbrown]

My natural weight is 175 at 5’11”, but one year I cut it down to about 168 and skied about the same but didn’t feel I had the strength. The next year I bumped it up to 180 with more weight training in the off season and I skied better that year, much stronger. So, I think there maybe is an ideal weight for each person individually, but for me whatever I had to sacrifice to get to 168lbs was actually a deterrent.

[Dano]

Lighter doesn’t mean you are stronger or fitter. Just as being stronger doesn’t mean you have to weigh more. Being lighter due to dieting may not make you ski better if you’ve lost muscle mass in the process. And being super strong in all the wrong ways won’t help you ski better either.

[swbca]

@Dano Good Points. I am sure that an initiative to lose weight for slalom skiing, especially for a "senior" requires consistent strength training using techniques that maintain and build strength in the right places. Not techniques used for building muscle mass. From personal experience, I know everything works much better without a surplus of fat; even a 10 pound decrease back to my baseline has always helped me. I have tried it both ways more than once. Even if weight loss doesn't help with slalom skiing performance, taking unnecessary load off of the joints is something I need.

[epnault]

Good topic. I love skiing but I know my physical size is not helping me just for the plain fact that I don’t believe course skis are designed for 6-1 215lbs. I train hard off the water and eat clean my whole life and my average ski weight each season is about 215. This was my weight at age 18 - 46 now. I did notice a consistency difference switching from the Pro Vapor to a Pro Senate last season. My body fat % is around 10% so any additional weight is going to come from muscle and at my age I am not willing to go that far. I do many other things other than skiing.

 

So I agree, in dynamic sports being lighter is always better. Performance and stress. The engineer in me knows this but I am not going to give up my muscle mass for just one fun activity in my life.

[Stevie Boy]

I think PB's come from your state of mind, if you are focused but relaxed and not thinking about the other competitors, it's a good place to be, nerves stop a lot of good skiers achieving their best.

There are Good Skiers and there are Good Competitors , you should always strive to be a good competitor.

There are Pro Skiers that have been known to crumble under pressure, I know one Pro who has to put his gloves on, in a specific sequence, if somebody distracts him and he gets it wrong, it really does spoil his day.

[DW]

It would be interesting to plot the boat path / speed trace / skier path with the same skier at different weights (enough to see if there is a significant difference). Dartfish plots similar to ones used in motorsport would be cool to compare.

[scoke]

@epnault

 

This is fascinating.

 

What other sports do you have as hobbies?

 

What speeds/line lengths do you typically start at and run? What's your tournament PB?

[epnault]

@scoke

 

Well I am a self taught course skier and started this craziness about 6 years ago. I never have or plan to ski in a tournament. I just have fun skiing with the group on our lake. We have a couple of insta-slalom courses we drop in. PB for me so far is 2 @ 32 off -34mph, not impressive for this group for sure but it took me about 1.5 seasons to get a full pass @ 30mph 15 off back in the earlier days LOL.

 

Other sports - tennis, alpine skiing, golf, CrossFit, hunting (yes it is sport), motocross/eduro bikes, mountain bikes, snowmobiling, etc. I like all things outdoors. Thanks for asking.

 

 

[swbca]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:42 PM, Bruce_Butterfield said:

The unfortunate reality is that for most of us old codgers, its much easier to spend $2k on a new ski than it is to drop 10 lbs. The new ski would probably not get anymore buoys. 10lbs might get another buoy or 2. But its REALLY hard to give the up the adult beverages at the end of the ski set:)

Last spring I found I can enjoy adult beverages at the end of a ski set and eat without intentional moderation of what or how much I eat.  With one 14oz. daily serving of 26gram CORE POWER protein drink, my weight is down almost 10 pounds over the last 5 months with no dieting effort.  This is known affect of protein supplements.

Something that might help if you want to stay ready for the summer of 2024.

Edited October 15, 2023 by swbca