Front of ski washes out on my on-side. What the first thing to try different

[swbca]

I have had limited chances on testing and adjusting a ski that is new to me. Its a 67" D3 ION with factory settings for a 165lb skier.

 

I was skiing with some friends who are 35off skiers at 32mph and 36mph. They say I am riding too far back all the time specifically through the wake. There were 2 years in the past when I never missed 35off/34 in tournaments, but now I am a NOVICE restarting at age 75 at 32mph.

 

Right Foot Forward | on-side problems:

 

When I try to stay centered over the ski approaching and through the wake the front doesn't hold and have to quickly adjust to avoid a rib-cracking fall into the wake.

 

When I pull off to the right and just hang with a strong pull in a position to the right of boat, the front just gives way and I fall.

 

When I try to engage the tip on my on-side turn with any speed, the front doesn't engage as expected.

 

Been reading the Fin-Whisperer. Having the front wash out can be from bindings to far forward - but its not that simple.

 

What's the first thing to try ?

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

I'm not the one to help you on this, but I'm pretty sure that anyone who can help you is gonna need to see some video.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Assuming you are setup at “factory” settings, based on your descriptions and without seeing video I would say the first thing to try is a different ski. If you are struggling that much it’s likely that ski simply doesn’t match your style.

[Horton]

Video / Stock settings...

[Andre]

Indian or the arrow ?

[RGilmore]

Video from the POV of the pylon can prove or disprove this thought, but I'm betting that your handle/hands are not properly aligned with your body while crossing the wake. Even if you have a perfectly aligned body "stack", if your hands are out in front of you as you cross behind the boat (instead of aligned with your stack's centerline) you are gonna overload the front of the ski and risk the kind of fall you are describing.

 

I do not have my copy in front of me, but there is a great full-page photo in your Fin Whispering book that shows a LFF skier in an offside pull with perfect ankles/hips/ hands/ shoulders alignment while directly behind the boat. I'd advise you find that photo and study it closely. If you can manage to look like that guy there's a good chance you will manage ski like that guy (of course, YMMV).

 

As always, IMO.

[Deanoski]

My guess your stock settings / out of the box or not correct

 

has your fin settings never been checked

 

They are most likely not correct

[dchristman]

Maybe you need a Side Force Enhancer :-J

[skialex]

Stock fin settings seem a pretty good start on the ION for most skiers and for many good enough to leave them on.

Is “stock” out of the box stock? I guess you or some of your ski buddies are good at measuring and putting stock numbers, would you please post pictures of the three measurements with a caliper?

[scoke]

These threads and this website are my favorite of the innerwebbers.

 

Here is a summary so far of this thread and the direction it's headed:

 

 

 

[Horton]

@scoke ok so give some helpful advice

[lpskier]

Is it possible that you have a broken ski?

[swbca]

@RGilmore @skialex I had previously adjusted the wing to an unknown shallower angle than factory recommendation. Better but not good. I had set the fin to factory specs when I got the ski. I wasn't setup too accurately by the factory.

 

When I removed the wing today, there was a significant improvement. The tip is already down in preturn and goes into the turn much better. Also much better angle and speed through the wake and less impact on the wake. Less difficulty getting wide and smoother transitions.

 

The 32 mph skier I practice with skies 35 off in tournaments on his Goode and he also has no wing.

 

Regarding your comments. I can see I need to work on body position, mostly on my on-side.

[scoke]

Ok I’ll bite:

We’ve got to determine if you’re standing on the balance point of the ski. Like a fulcrum.

Every ski has a sweet spot or tipping point like a seesaw. Too far forward or too far back, the ski doesn’t work as designed.

 

As the water warms and cools, we need to slide our boots 1/16 to 1/8 fwd or back to make sure we’re standing on the balance point.

 

Same holds true for setting up a new ski. Every ski comes out of the mold with a different balance point.

First step in setting up a ski is boot placement

Second is fin setup.

Wing angle is trivial.

 

Action:

Please post video so we can see the attitude of the ski at top of gate or full lean at first spray?

If no video, please provide any still frames during the stance?

Please provide factory starting point of front boot to tail? Please provide your tape measured setting from tail? If you can a picture, that would be better.

 

Without any of the above to make sure we’re squared away, advice in this thread is like pissing in the wind.

[lpskier]

Note to self: When hanging out with Shelby @scoke, stand well up wind.

[scoke]

@lpskier

As you’ll see from my post, I’m direct and action focused on the biggest obvious thing. Less talk, more action.

[Skoot1123]

There are a lot of variables that just can’t be described adequately with words. Post some video and you’ll get the feedback you need. Better yet, get some video and send it to @Givego and get a pros advice. Well worth it.

[Horton]

I think the bottom line that we all agree on is that without video it's extremely hard to diagnose anything

[swbca]

Lets put a pause on this thread . . I have a long way to go before I will be posting videos anywhere. I probably shouldn't have posted this question without posting a video. But I am having fun and making progress.

 

My new course is still sitting 6 feet down with sub-buoys this summer and I have only skied in a course 3 times this year after a 30 year layoff. Having some community issues to get through. I have been free skiing everyday, but that doesn't do anything for skiing in a course after a long layoff.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Vernon Reeve]

@swbca I know a lot of people that want to be better before posting a video, but that really doesn't make sense to me. It's like saying "I want to take a long time to get better by myself, before I ask anyone how to get better faster". I know someone who doesn't want to send a video for analysis to Terry Winter until he gets better, even though he's seen the improvement I've made after my video was analyzed. This community of skiers is the most non-judgmental group of people I have ever seen. Always lots of helpful advice no matter the ability level. So don't ever worry about posting a video or sending your video to one of the pros. Plus I always learn something from the comments that are made about a video someone posted.

And that's awesome your getting back into it at 75. Gives me hope that I'll still be skiing at that age.

[swbca]

@Vernon Reeve I appreciate your comments. My problem with a video . . I skied in competition from age 14 to 40 and usually placed 1st except in the Nationals. After a decades layoff I had fully prepared for a good restart and was expecting to go to the nationals in M9 this year. I have skied 100 "sets" this summer, but the course I installed in January is 6 feet down and hung up in community politics.

 

Coaching and a video would be great if I was skiing at 80 or 90% of my current potential, but without a course I am stuck at 10%. Don't need a video of that . . I already know what's wrong and could self correct up to 80% with access to a slalom course and all the great on-line resources referenced on this forum. That would be a good time for instruction.

 

I am pretty sure I will have the course problem resolved by the end of August.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[Horton]

@swbca

I disagree. The further from your goal you are more likely some outside eyes (video) is going to help you. As I recall you haven't skied in decades. I find it likely that you need some blunt honest feedback from somebody with a lot of current experience.

[ForrestGump]

Yeah, I'm with Horton on this. If you are at 10% out of the course, you're not going to self correct to 80% in the course. Otherwise you'd self correct now. The course just makes things worse.

[scoke]

I'm torn. I love webboards, waterskiing and memes.

 

There are three different ones that could be posted.

a pissing in the wind meme

a "i told ya so" meme

or a Col. Nathan Jessep

 

[Horton]

@scoke would I improve your personal quality of life if I tweaked your account so you couldn't see this thread? I feel like you can't look away yet it impacts you irrationally.

 

please just try to look away.

[scoke]

Hi John,

 

Guilty.

 

I don't facespace.

I don't twitter-twatter.

I don't toktiklle.

I don't gram (except following funny cat videos).

This is my guilty pleasure and it shows.

 

In my normal life and business multiple people have told me "you're the most rational reasonable person I've ever met."

 

The irony.

 

[Horton]

@scoke whoever said "you're the most rational reasonable person I've ever met." needs to spend 5 minutes with you at the lake and or see a psychiatrist.

[ForrestGump]

@swbca You could have it a lot worse. @horton has videotaped me himself, and on the video you hear him laughing. I think you can even hear him ask, I wonder if he'd consider badminton as a hobby instead of skiing? Or the time he stood up in the boat between passes and very loudly said "Who taught you that??? That was TTTEEERRRIBLE!" LOL But seriously, there's no reason not to seek the eyes of some very experienced skiers and coaches here. The way you learned is 30+ years old, the skis are different, and the technique is a lot different now. For all of their assholiness, Horton, Scoke, and Bruce will give some pretty darn good advice. Sorry, Bruce. Didn't mean to lump you in with those two yayhoos.

[swbca]

@ForrestGump @Horton Not disagreeing entirely, but looking pretty while free skiing doesn't rebuild the skills needed for short line course skiing. When I drove today for a couple of solid 35 off skiers (32 & 36 mph) they each fell 3 or 4 times because the intensity of the commitment to push into their difficult rope lengths. I have free skied 100 sessions this year and look OK but haven't fallen once because I'm not forced to learn how much I can engage the tip of the ski to initiate turns. If I was in a course I would be pushing myself and reinforcing the necessary skills required for short line skiing and falling occasionally. IMO, even with instruction not much will change without regular access to a slalom course. With a course a lot of change would happen in a few weeks.

[ral]

Falling a lot while training (slalom, tricks is a different animal…) is something that does not show the intensity of the commitment but a lack of a reasonable training plan and focus.

[swbca]

@ral These are successful competitors . . . its arrogant to critique their character. Watch the pro tour events . . . many skiers swim to shore.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@swbca first I think its awesome that you have re-ignited your passion and are jumping back into the sport at your ripe old age. However you are fooling yourself on several fronts.

 

- there is no way your 75yo body is going to cooperate and function even close to the way it did 30 years ago. Heck, I'm 59 and I don't move with the strength and coordination I did even 10 years ago, let alone 30.

- yes free skiing is different than the course, but your basic body position, leverage, balance and ski setup will all be the same. Video will make those easy to spot and correct.

- we are almost all our own worst coaches. There is a very small number at the top of the game that can figure things out on their own, but the vast majority of us will do significantly better with at least a set of outside eyes.

- jumping right back in and expecting to be skiing shortline after such a long break and physical deterorization with age is a lofty expectation. You will be better served by setting smaller, incremental goals - a roadmap if you will - of all the basic steps it takes to get to the end result.

 

Quit beating your head against the wall and post video if you want help. We are all rooting for you! (Well all of us except scoke)

[thager]

Golf

[ral]

@swbca , tournaments. Not training.

 

Did not mention anything about character, just training plan.

 

BTW, if you are driving them regularly thru the course, don’t they pull you as well?