Winterizing with RV anti-freeze

[swbca]

Last year was my first year with this boat. I had no problem getting RV Anti-Freeze into the water jacket and everywhere else. Last year the thermostat bypass switched to pull the anti-freeze into the engine after about 10 minutes at idle and when the water temp gauge reached 160 degrees. The water coming out the back had switched to HOT at the 10 minute mark. That's when I poured 5 gallons of anti-freeze into the yellow bucket below.

 

This year the thermostat bypass never switched even after 30 minutes, so the water coming out the back was about 70 degrees, only a 15 degree rise from the water going in. Ambient Temperature ? Cooler water supply ? Sticky Thermostat ?

 

Since RV Anti-Freeze doesn't have rust retardants, should I just drain an blow all the water out ? The boat is in a heated condominium garage, but an extended power failure could happen at 25 below zero in Minnesota.

 

[BraceMaker]

This is why I always dump the block drains first. Run on water till oil is warm to be changed. Then dump the block. Then pour antifreeze and run till its coming out the exhausts and youve eliminated water.

 

If thermostat is closed and the block is full of water it is unknown how dilluted it becomes.

[swbca]

@BraceMaker Where do you "pour the antifreeze" ? If antifreeze is pulled in by the water pump it goes only goes to manifolds and then out the back if the thermostat is cold . . right ?

 

[BraceMaker]

not quite the thermostat is on the hot side of the block where hot water rises and exits. When you dump the block it drains the heads, the thermostat housing, the raw water circ pump etc. Now if you add antifreeze the pump pushes the coolant to the thermostat housing which because of gravity will cause the antifreeze to go down the J tube to the circ pump and start filling the block, then the heads, then it will hit the thermostat and be restricted. At this point the water will rise up to the top of the thermostat housing and go through the outlets to the manifolds and out the exhaust. If you want leave your block drains open and run it pink will come out the drains, then close those drains up.

 

You can also take off the J tube to the circ pump and pour in beer bong style with the engine off.

[BraceMaker]

When it is already full of water that antifreeze has to displace the water by pushing it through the thermostat. While of course that water gets mixed with the antifreeze.

[oldjeep]

I also drain mine completely 1st, in clouding the j tube. Blow out the heater and the pour in though one of the hoses at the thermostat housing and fill the heater via the upper hose. At no point do I run the engine, this all happens in the garage on whatever day I decide the season is done.

 

When you drain the block, make sure to jam a screwdriver in the block drains to make sure they are not clogged.

[swbca]

@BraceMaker I drained the block and the manifolds. Then ran the engine to pump in 5 gallons of Anti-Freeze. As you said, nothing much came out of the exhaust until the end.

 

What components still have water that needs to be removed ? The occupant heater ? Other ?

 

Below. The original owner of this 2004 ProStar had problems with the original manifolds corroding. You can see some welding that was done to replace a leaky fitting or to plug a hole - I am not sure which. Also the dealer add some rubber tubing and a water valve to drain the manifolds without tools when the boat wasn't being used for intervals. He couldn't get exact manifold replacements and the replacement he could get required changing other components. So he had welding and powder coating done a few years ago.

http://swbca.net/29dkfju/20.jpg

[BraceMaker]

@oldjeep has a good point I removed the factory petcocks which were worthless and use hex head plugs so I can use a small ratchet to pull them I also probe the hole.

 

Showers

Heater cores

Coolers

The bilge

Mufflers - if you run on your driveway then drain water and back into a barn there can be a lot of water collected, comes out if you go up a boat ramp or hill.

[swbca]

@oldjeep @BraceMaker Thanks for your help.

 

Done with lubs and coolants

 

One last question . . . how do you "fog" or similar a 2004 EFI MCX Indmar engine. Last year I think I read about pulling things apart for each cylinder to gain access. I did nothing last fall. There are oil additives for storing cars but I don't know if its just hype.

[skimtb]

The internet needs a filter that prevents “winterizing” from being used until October 1st. So sad.

Been a good season, but it’s coming….

[jhughes]

PSA: the thermostat lets water or coolant out of the engine, not in.

 

I haven't used antifreeze for years except in the heater (I blow the heater out then blow in some AF for good measure). I drain and leave it, both my 16 and my 00.

 

As for fogging it's up to you. Oil gets pretty impregnated into the crosshatch of the cylinder bores anyway, not sure how necessary it is to fog for just a seasonal storage, I haven't done that either for years.

[Andre]

Can't you fog by pulling the landyard (no spark,no fuel either i think) and shooting in the air intake while turning the key to start ?

[Johnseed]

I'm not saying my way was technically correct but it seemed to work easy and effectively through a zero degree Northern Kentucky winter.

 

I ran the boat on the lake till it was warm. Pulled boat and changed oil and transmission fluid. Drained block. Made approx 5 gal of antifreeze solution in a bucket. Used a sump pump and the fake a lake. Started boat and sump pump. Ran until bucket was empty and solution was coming out the exhaust. Over and done. I wasn't a fan of leaving the system dry all winter. At least the glycol or whatever is in the antifreeze seems to help with rust.

[oldjeep]

I only fog recently machined engines that will sit for years. Long term project engines. The boat sits for 5-6 months and has more than enough oil in the cylinders. Same thing I do with motorcycles and snowmobiles, park them and start them up when it is time to go.

[BraceMaker]

To me better than fogging is storing somewhere nice and dry.

[rayn]

For the newer boats the Mastercraft owners group recommended STAR BRITE EZ Store EZ Start Gas Storage. It has worked for me the last 3 years or at least it seemed to. It is both a fuel stabilizer and fogging agent in one step.

[UWSkier]

Our family Malibu back in WI has been winterized the same way for 20 years. Never any anti-freeze used other than in the heater core. Pull block drains, pull manifold drains, pull hoses from raw water and circ pumps to dump those, reassemble, cover, and park in the shed. Temps regularly get to -15F or lower at night in the shed. Never an issue other than the one time we let someone else winterize it for us and lost a heater core as a result.

[Jmoski]

Agree that getting the water out is the critical part, then AF in block and the heater for me as extra credit.

 

The heater core you have to blow out the lines and the core to make sure it’s all out.

[Clydesdale]

Stupid question…. Since the thermostat is on the output end of the water loop, will the block fill with water (or anti freeze) on start up, or does an air pocket remain until the thermostat opens and allows the air out?

[bbruzzese]

Anyone pull spark plugs and spray a little fogging oil directly in cylinders? Spray SeaFoam works well.

[swbca]

@Clydesdale This may indirectly answer your question.

Explained to me by @BraceMaker . . . drain water from block and manifolds, put the plugs back in. Connect anti-freeze bucket to the water pump intake, run engine. The block will fill with the anti-freeze, then remainder will go into manifolds and excess out the back. The temperature/position of the thermostat doesn't matter. With a cool engine this worked for me. 4 gallons of anti-freeze were pulled in before anti-freeze came out the exhaust.

 

Run water through the bucket first if you want to warm up the engine before changing the oil . . then drain the block and manifolds . . then go to the antifreeze fill as described above.

 

Then I pushed a gallon of anti-freeze through the heater with a 12v pump I use to pull oil out of the transmission.

 

This is all a backup for me . . the boat is stored in a heated garage, but if there is an extended power failure at 30 below zero, the boat won't freeze.

 

From my first post . . . the bucket that connects to water pump intake.

[jhughes]

@Clydesdale the block will fill up just fine when empty.

 

@bbruzzese this is exactly how you fog a modern EFI motor. I don't do it because I think it's overkill but that is the technique.

[Edmund]

@bbruzzese Yes, I do for good measure. After spraying in all cylinders, hand crank the engine a turn and the reinstall the plugs.

[Edmund]

Does anyone drain the transmission fluid cooler? I do every year. There is a drain plug on the cooler itself of my GT-40.

[BraceMaker]

@Edmund if horizontal either pull the plug or it will be plenty safe if you dump it and add antifreeze

[oldjeep]

@Edmund Whatever drains are available on your particular motor should be opened and drained.

[swbca]

@oldjeep @BraceMaker The previous owner of my 2004 ProStar replaced the water pump impeller every spring. He gave me all of the old ones with the boat. Some "experts" say to take it out for the winter. I have had 4 boats over 30 years and never had an impeller fail. So what's smart ?

[oldjeep]

@swbca Depends on what you want to do. I don't take them out over the winter, I replace every 2-3 years - which on my boat is 100-120 hours. I've never had a failure and I've never pulled one out that actually looked like it needed to be replaced. I keep a spare in the boat and the tools I would need to replace it if the need ever arose.

 

 

[BraceMaker]

@swbca I don't mind them being replaced but what sort of psycho keeps 20 years of old parts?

 

Avoid starting it dry for anything, lube the new one when you put it in with water or glycerine, or take off the hose from the trans cooler and fill that with water then reattach. Dry starts kills them.

 

In MC world after the LT1's came out people got really paranoid because those engines would overheat if you glanced at them in the mid 90's there were issues with the steam tubes between the heads and the reverse cooling and if you smoked an impellor and it shredded it could plug up the heads. In a regular SBC not a big deal.

[GaryJanzig]

When I winterize mine '94 Ski Nautique with the 351 Ford. When I drain the block and the manifolds I spray a hose into the drain holes and let the water drain out. I keep repeating until the water comes out clear. I put the plugs back in, then draw the RV antifreeze out of a bucket while fogging the engine. Since the boat is stored in a semi heated garage which is dry I store it with the gas tank at 1/8th of a tank, but I add enough sta-bil to store 30 gallons. I run that through the engine after changing the oil and letting the boat idle for 10 minutes before draining the block and manifolds. I take the tension out of the belts, and remove the battery and charge it once per month. Going to overhaul my steering system. There is some side to side play in the rudder(not bad yet), and some rotational play(not bad yet). New tilt, maybe a new steering head, cable, going to inspect the clamp block, and the rudder port. I am hoping the rudder shaft is not worn. If it is I will replace it with a tunable rudder. The current cable is okay, but will have to replace it if I replace the steering head since it requires a newer cable design.

 

[Deanoski]

Get it hot then have her stuck 12 galllons out of a bucket done in 10 mins

[LeonL]

@Deanoski that's the way I've done it for 20+ years with no problems. I don't even use that much, maybe 8-10 gallons of a 75% A F mixture.

Oh, back to the topic, I have used RV antifreeze with success.

[BraceMaker]

12 gallons of antifreeze is expensive, open the two block drains dump the manifolds remove the hoses with a ratchet all that takes like 3 minutes. add 3 gallons of pink and you are done.

[oldjeep]

No kidding. The -100 stuff I use is $13 a gallon

[Deanoski]

expensive is the dam boat I'm protecting!!

[oldjeep]

So do it right and drain the water out first instead of taking the shortcut of trying to flush the water out with antifreeze. ;)

[BraceMaker]

@oldjeep damned straight. I'll put it this way, if you dont drain the water Im not sure if you need 1 or 5 or 20 gallons of antifreeze to ensure its purged.

 

But when you dump the water it 100% has no water left to freeze. Even cheap boats are worth the 3 minutes. Get the tools you need for your boat

 

[swbca]

A lot of advise you get from @BraceMaker is good.:) Helped me several times

[Fast351]

My method for my GT40 has worked through some VERY cold winters in Minnesota.

 

1) Warm engine up, preferably by driving it around the lake, but otherwise back it down the ramp and let it idle until engine temp is 175 and oil pressure drops to 20 PSI at idle.

2) Change oil while warm.

3) Drain ALL plugs (2 block, 2 manifold, 1 water pump U)

4) Remove and dump strainer

5) Remove inlet hose from trans cooler and hook up 5 gallon bucket with hose attached to bottom

6) Put plugs back in with fresh teflon tape for next year

7) Put 4 gallons of the cheapest RV antifreeze you can find in 5 gallon bucket (FVP at Menards is $2.19/gal)

8) Start and idle boat. When bucket is halfway empty dump in last gallon.

9) Let engine suck all antifreeze out of bucket, and stop engine when bucket is empty. It's just coming out the exhaust at this point

10) Reconnect raw water intake hose, put a splash of antifreeze in raw filter housing, and reinstall.

 

The $11 in antifreeze is worth it for peace of mind. Needed? Maybe not. But if it displaces some water that might freeze and keeps a boat from needing an expensive repair, not to mention screwing up part of your next season, that's good enough for me. We regularly get -30 where I'm at.

 

[Lars]

@swbca the second picture you posted, those are casting plugs on the aluminum manifold and come that way from the factory. Thehey occasionally need to be replaced but those look original.

 

 

[swbca]

@Lars If you are referring to the only Manifold photo I posted, the owner said he had that welding done because he couldn't get direct replacements of the type in the photo. I've never seen the original to know the difference.