too much ski

[harddock]

Would an intermediate buoy chaser hinder progression by skiing on a top level, perhaps too aggressive ski? If one struggles to get through 34/15 or just making 2 or 3 @ 36/15 on a pro level ski be better off on a ski that is a bit more forgiving. I just watched a video on the Works by Syndicate and it got me thinking.

[jjackkrash]

No. Get the best ski you can afford. Make sure it is the right size and has enough support for your size and skiing speed. Make sure it has a good binding system that fits and works for you.

[scoke]

Yes, it would be a hinderance.

This is a game of confidence, fixing flaws and being able to make mistakes. Skiers that improve, don't have to always be "perfect" on high end gear but have a cushion to stay upright and keep working.

https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/27325/higher-end-skis-at-lower-speed

Skiers trying to run those passes you describe need a Radar Senate C type of ski.

Also, be careful who you take advice from. It's like taking financial advice from a broke person.

[owennibley]

I agree with scoke in that it could be a hinderance.

In my experience, your ski should match your ski level. You'll improve significantly faster with a ski that matches your level vs a ski that exceeds your skill. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule so it is skier dependent.

If you're breaking into 36mph, then a probably a ski designed to go 36mph would be wise.

And I will echo the last sentence from scoke....

[jjackkrash]

My boy ran his first pass about this time of year two years ago on a TRA at 22.5 MPH. I switched him to a Vapor about when he could run his 24.9 / 15 off pass middle of the next summer and then put him on a Vapor Pro this year. This year his tournament PB was 2 @-22 / 36 MPH and then he tied that in a small craft advisory. He bumped his start speed to 30MPH-22 off after he ran that pass 12 times in a row without stopping to win our club end of year spin-it-to-win it tourney. He also won a pretty packed head to head this year by skiing right at his average and beating it twice in head to head competition. I don't buy one bit that a good ski will hold you back.

[PatM]

@jjackkrash You cannot compare kids skiing to adult skiing. Kids improve at a greater rate and adapt quicker than any adult. I've seen what you are saying about your son many times through the years. They just grow and adapt at the same time.

[jjackkrash]

@PatM understood, but I still maintain the ski is not holding him back. The key is making sure it is sized right for the speed, has enough support for the speed, and has a decent binding system. If you have those things the rest is on you.

[jjackkrash]

And for the record I don't think a properly sized Senate is a bad choice for any intermediate skier either; it is still a "high end ski" with a touch more width than a Vapor.

[Horton]

I have to say I have had surprising results with Radar Vapors. I put a number of college kids who were between 26 mph and 34 mph on Vapors and they all excelled more than expected.

[skispray]

I had a top level ski when I started the course at 28 mph. Changed to a more forgiving ski on some good advice, and used that to get from 30 mph up into 36 mph, 22 off. I switched back to a top level ski at that time. I would 100% recommend this path for people learning the course. The intermediate ski was more stable and handled speeds of 28-32 mph much better. 36 mph is when I felt like I needed something a bit more aggressive, but ran into 22 off without issue on the intermediate ski. I think it sped my progression.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@harddock the general statement of a top level ski may hinder is not really true. The real problem is that some brands of "high performance" skis require a very specific setup and very good technique or they will definitely hold back progress. On the other hand some high performance skis are very easy to ride and are very forgiving.

Horton is correct about the vapor. I would put anyone from 25mph long line through 41 off on a Vapor and be confident the skier would be comfortable right off the bat and the ski would do exactly what it should do. D3 would be the second choice. Any other brand, you need to try before you buy and get an unbiased opinion of how that ski works for you.

[MDB1056]

@harddock - Speed definitely has something to do with this discussion as well. Your post notes 34 and 36. IMO the answer might change more if this were 24-26. Some high end skis are not made to go that slow and could be a hinderance. As @jjackkrash notes - enough support for the speed. @skispray example as well.

In your case if the skier is comfortable at 34-36 it's less of an issue as you're at least operating in the speed zone where the ski is built to best perform. Even slowing to 32 to learn a pass isn't going to be a hinderance for most skis.

Also if you look at the top line skis for the past several years most are being made to be suitable for a variety of skiers, vs years ago some were downright twitchy and could be finicky unless really doing it right (e.g., F1, Monza, Phantom, etc.). Yes this also helps them sell more skis but it is more the case as even @Horton notes, starting folks on Vapors has been a positive. Some might say going with an older ski might be easier to start, but I would say if you bought say a 5-8 year old ski is it really any different situation, if that were a top of the line ski then? Bottom line I'm supporting the line of go with a ski that's better than you , especially at those speeds, as it's doubtful it will be a hinderance . Can a skier learning do well on a Senate C as @scoke recommends? Absolutely. It's a great ski. But would putting them on a Vapor, ION, Omega or other top line ski hold them back? IMO - Unlikely.