Are Tournaments TOO LONG? | FPM Podcast #20

[ROBOT]

MB and Rob discuss the state of water ski tournaments....can we change things up for the better??

0:00 - Intro
2:00 - MB Storytime
6:00 - Best Skiing Possible, or Quickest Skiing?
10:15 - Last Man (or Woman) Standing

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[ROBOT]

@Than_Bogan you are now officially famous. 

[ALPJr]

Thanks, that was a good question and chat guys. Imo the webcasts by TWBC are knocking it out of the park. I like that we have a schedule and flexibility to plan to see our fav’s in the prelim’s, or we can carve out time to tune in for the finals, or wait til the next day for the wrap up. Sure if there was a 90’s/Moomba festival or two that would be great. Back to the question… I’m in the same camp as Rob in that -38 starts would not produce the best scores, or increase viewership considerably, and could lead to avoidable injuries. 

[morfoot]

Guess it depends on who you ask. Some would say yes and others will say no. Those of us who love the sport (which is why we're here in the first place) will tune in to watch if we have nothing else going on and some will make a point to do so. As a masters attendee since 94, I love going. Nothing beats seeing a tournament in person. TWBC is the next best thing for those of us who can't be there first hand. Like ALPJr stated. The wonderful thing about it all is if we didn't see it live streamed, then we can watch it at our leisure. I know I did with the recent tournament. Me personally, I enjoy watching all the skiers and try to break down what each individual does the same and what they do different. They each have their own style so with each pass as a beginner course skier I soak it all in and try to emulate and learn from watching them. It's no different than a 4 hour NFL or NCAA Football game or MLB. As for myself, I'll take watching Pro Skiing over MLB or the NBA any day of the week. I think it's fine just the way it is.

[Kelvin]

This year for Swiss Pro the men started at 32off in the first round and 35off in the second round.  First round was 7 skiers/hour and the second round was 12 skiers/hour.  The increased pace packs more exciting skiing into the same amount of time.  I'm all for it.

[BraceMaker]

@Kelvin I suppose you could impose a limit on passon over your opener 

[dave2ball]

I have not listened to the pod cast yet. But first thought is  they will just add more skiers in turn puts more money in their pockets. The sad part is the skiers get to go home after they ski. It’s the people working the tournaments that get screwed. 

[DaveD]

I would love it if TWBC could add fast forward tabs so you could jump to the 38 or 39off passes for each skier.  That way, I'd have the option of skipping the easier passes and watch the money passes.  It would shave off a ton of viewing time when I don't have all day to watch.  But, I'd still have the option of watching all of their passes if I want to.   

[Ham_Wallace]

First: decide what you want.  Performance or Competition? 

   Competing since the mid-sixties, there was fun and comradarie in going to one round/ 3-event tournaments in the summers. There were bragging rights after each event. weather, drivers, boats, conditions were all factors.  It was about beating your buddies that weekend. Competition.  The first multi round tournament I ever attended was the Geronimo Jump Tournament in Columbus, Ohio in 1970. 3 rounds of jumping was fun. 

    Fast forward to the future: There are skiers that will not attend the Regionals or Nationals because they are not multi-round.  Not good for the sport.......

   We need to keep the sport more inclusive for families. Boats, Private lakes and travel have gotten cost prohibitive for most.  Private lakes have taken visibility of the sport away from public waters. 

   There is a way to include many more people. Let em' all ski in the Nationals (If they ski in the Regionals).  It would benefit the vendors, the LOC, the Association.   THE CATCH: Draw your head-to head competitor. 2 boats, 2 passes, ski both back to back. Tie goes to the first skier. Sker 2 moves to losers bracket. Skier1 chooses starting speed/ rope length. Sker 2 would need to start at the highest pass completed and get into the next one to beat skier 2. If you lose twice you are eliminated. The event would be spaced out several days of the week with the finals on the last day. This format would allow a lot of skiers to participate. If you are a Association member and can pay the entry, you can ski.  The whole family could ski. We would be back to over a thousand skiers!  2 boats done right you could ski 40 skiers in 2 hours or less. Fast and furious. an announcers dream. 

[Than_Bogan]

Hah!  Been away from BoS for a bit, but fun to see this.

I think all three of us (Rob, Marcus, I) are thinking the same on this.  Men start at -35, women at -32 is appreciably quicker without ruining the skier's experience.  Starting even shorter would harm performance.

Comments about the format of high jump & pole vault (mentioned by Marcus):

- I've been told that the very first slalom tournaments used that format: Everyone completes the first pass, then everyone completes the second pass, then everyone completes the third pass, etc.  My impression is it was brutally slow.

- Nobody watches the HJ or PV at any level.  Maybe parents...

- One of the big problems with watching these events is that it's ALL "warm up heights" for 90% of the event.  It's not until the very end that the best folks are challenging themselves.

[dave2ball]

@Ham_Wallace I agree with you on the format. It would be fun and challenging at the same time. The only flaw is would the LOC be able to get 2 like boats?  In some areas they have a hard time getting one.  Not trying to be negative but realistically boat are an issue now. 
Would you be able to ski 2 separate boats in this event?  

[ETskier]

Yes, agree with pro women starting at 32 off, men at 35. Mostly that will be down and back twice for most pro skiers. Worth the excitement if they get to their 5th pass. Shoot, jumping finals should be 2 passes. Seems like very few times the event is won on the 3rd jump.

[jgills88]

10 hours ago, ETskier said:

Yes, agree with pro women starting at 32 off, men at 35. Mostly that will be down and back twice for most pro skiers. Worth the excitement if they get to their 5th pass. Shoot, jumping finals should be 2 passes. Seems like very few times the event is won on the 3rd jump.

For 2 jumps, safety might be an issue if skiers feel like they cannot pass because they'd only have one more attempt at the ramp. If we really want to try and cut down on jump time, maybe compromise and say skiers get 2 trips over the ramp, and up to 3 attempts.