Unlocking the next level

[MNshortliner]

Would like to hear some stories from skiers of when you have experienced that  “ah ha”  moment to maybe unlock that next pass or a big step in the right direction. 
 

For me there would be 2.  For the first couple of years I skied over over with my hand grip. I got a chance to ski with @The_MS and he “ very nicely” said I better change that. A couple sets later and it had felt like I obviously should have done that a lot sooner.  Center of gravity goes down 3” or so by just doing that. 
The other one would be just not pushing your hips forward enough or not bending at the waist. That one was a game changer. 
 

Throw a pic of yourself up that you like please. 

[jcamp]

For me a big key to beginning to run 35 more consistently was realizing that I could still run it while being behind pretty much the whole pass. I don't have to floor it to try to get ahead at the very next buoy whenever I get behind. 

[The_MS]

Dial in the gate and timing so that you feel in control and slow on the way to 2 ball.  

[h2onhk]

15, 22 have been automatic for the last few years.  28 has almost been automatic and could usually scrap my way through 90% of the time.  Wheels would fall off at 32.  Usually could get 3-4 and not much more.  Would spend several passes in a row struggling to get as many as I could at 32.  I know that I have a problem with my center of mass and riding the tail when things get dicey.   One evening a few weeks ago I took a different approach and resulted in my ah-ha moment this year. 

Instead of running right down the line, I dropped my 15 pass and did 5 straight passes at 22.  Each pass I focused on the connection with the boat and waiting for the boat after each turn no matter how ugly it felt.  Then ran 5 passes at 28 doing the same thing.  A slight pause after each turn waiting for the boat hookup resulted in a more consistent stack and better cross course position/speed.  

 Next time out everything felt slower and ran right through my first 32 of the season.  Have run a few more after that and getting deeper into 35 each time.

[mlange]

@h2onhk  Funny because I had the same ah ha moment this year. 

I got it after watching one of Gordon Rathbun's slalom drill videos.  He talked about how critical that timing is for the turn in.  I had watched that same video at least 10 times, but never picked up on that piece of advice until this year.  I have a complete lack of patience and muscle memory from many years of doing it wrong so this is one of my two focuses every time out now.

Edited August 16, 2023 by mlange

[Dano]

I read a thread I think it was  @scoke who said "learn to ski with your legs instead of trying to lean/pull harder"  not the exact quote but that's how I remember it.  I'm not exactly sure what he meant but, I spent some time trying figure out how to get away from those massive leans.  Took some time but I think I'm on the right track.   My scores are up, consistency is way up, and my body is pain free.  Haven't cracked -35 yet but it's coming soon. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Dano

[BrennanKMN]

Two things for me have really upped my consistency at -35.

1. Consistent gate width, pullout, cut in timing and power/effort. (read: gate)

2. Taking it easier. I often was pulling too long trying to 'crush' the pass. Easing up and practicing better handle control into the ball has help immensely. Form trumps power every time for me. 

[MDB1056]

So many great comments here I can relate to. Consistent gate pullout and turn in - Essential for us mere mortals.   Stop trying to power a pass and just relax and ski - yes form and timing are key. Also as noted above skiing MUCH more from the waist down . I have not been using my legs nearly enough. A Freddie comment in one of his recent podcasts with MB he said he tells 99% of students to "use their knees as arrows" where they want the ski to go. A simple visual that if done moves so much more in line also.        

[03RLXi]

For me skiing at 18.25m (15' off) level it was listening to a Spraymaker’s Gates episode, from that gaining understanding that turn in is at the right speed (not ‘right’ place), then trying it and instantly feeling what they meant.  The key was learning about it being essential to get into athletic stance/stack before the load starts.  Game changer knowledge for me.

Before then I'd not known about why gates were so important, other than them being something to go through.  No one ever said and I’d not read it anywhere.

So perhaps really the game changer wasn't gates at all. It was stance before load.

Edited August 17, 2023 by 03RLXi

[thager]

I didn't start to really improve until I stopped skiing -15 and -22 passes. Shorten the line to - 28 and use whatever speed necessary to run it. Slowly increase the speed as you get success. 

[03RLXi]

16 hours ago, thager said:

I didn't start to really improve until I stopped skiing -15 and -22 passes. Shorten the line to - 28 and use whatever speed necessary to run it. Slowly increase the speed as you get success. 

Were you running passes consistently at -15 and -22 and at what speeds when you made this change to -28 low speed? Trying to understand if your -28 approach is something for course newbies doing -15 at 28, 30, 32mph to try. Thinking no, but want to understand more why it worked for you. 

[thager]

@03RLXi Yes, I was already running fairly consistent -15 and -22 at 34mph,  and yes, then I took a few shots at -28 for a few buoys here or there and  that's where I leveled out. Not a lot of looks at -28 and when I did I was already tired. At the suggestion of a friend from West Palm Beach ten or so years ago I dropped -15 ,-22 off  starting my passes at -28  at 32mph. The theory  as I was told is -28 is kind of where shortline  starts. Pull out, Gate shot, and Handle control just feels  different plus there is no more wake bump to contend with. I took more shots while fresh at -28 figuring out what it took to run it adding speed in increments. -32 progressed the same way. Doing same thing now for -35 at Men 7 max speed and have been running it past few weeks. One of my ski partners is now doing the same process and has improved a pass and a half this summer. Will it work for newbies at - 15 and -22 skiers at slower speeds? Probably not , but who knows? Once consistent at -15, -22  though, something to think about!

[LeonL]

This may not hold true for everyone,  but it’s similar to @thagermethod.  I found that every starting  line length that I dropped increased the buoy count on my toughest, unrunnable pass.  At least up to starting at 28.

[scoke]

@Dano Great work Dano!!  You are spot on as it sounds like your fundamentals have improved. If your fundamentals are cleaner and stronger, you WILL taste it:

Took some time but I think I'm on the right track.   My scores are up, consistency is way up, and my body is pain free. 

 

Here is more information for you and you were close on the quote:

Pulling versus leaning.

Perfect Pass, our muscle and mass was the power source.

Zero Off, the boat is the power source. Our job is to get into postion and be ready to move.

Hence why arm skiers, pullers and too heavy to height ratios get absolutely crushed while typically breaking at the waste, shoulders are tilted and they are fighting the boat. This leads to lots of issues of inconsistency and chasing their tails while “working on the gate” or jumping on the latest hyped ski.

This is a fundamental issue when skiing zero off.

 

“Loose and Lean”

We’re really supposed to be acting as a lever in the zero off era. Need power? Apply more throttle. Visualize a throttle with a cable attached toward near the top of it. The cable is our shoulders-arms and then our body is the level. Lean to turn add power to the throttle. Second spray out, we’re vertical but still connected and we have turn off the power while the boat has swung us out to the buoy line and we are “free but connected” to the boat through our connectors, the hands-arm.

 

Legs vs arms:

“Power and pull” The arm skiers. Usually guys will be stuck at 4@32 or 1@35. It’s pretty common as they are using the wrong  power source, their bodies are tense, they’re fighting the boat and their mind is in chaos to run buoys and you’ll see things like:

·         Top of gate, they have a big bow in the rope (typically squatting on the ski)

·         Arms are bent across the boat (pulling!!)

·         Hips drag or they lose alignment as soon as they hit the bounce or any disturbance in the wake.

·         Out to the buoy line, the COM will be over their rear heal.

·         They have a big sweeping turn using their arms, not their legs. The arms will be doing all the work vs the legs.

·         They will turn the ski with their shoulder and come out of the buoy tilted with the hips/COM dragging cross the boat.

 

The majority of the above will never really run 35, leads to a boat load of inconsistency and 6 months of head scratching through each season.

 

 

If you talk to the loose and leaners, you ask them, “are your muscles clenched?” they’ll answer, “I don’t know.” Or “no”. If you ask a puller (squatter too), they’ll say “yes, so sore, jacked up etc etc”.

 

The difference is a puller is grabbing a barbell in the gym and firing-contracting all their muscles as they are trying to be a power source. Then they lock up their muscles and hips and can’t actively move on the ski.

 

A leaner is trying to elongate their muscles while having them loose not contracted. This gives them the advantage to swing and move.

 

Perfect pass: Our muscles were fired to be the power source.

Zero off: our muscles are firing to hold position for short durations then we move on the ski.

 

Really buoys are run through movement, not power.

 

 

So all this above was my reference and relation to skiing with the arms vs legs with a little backstory of zero off vs perfect pass. Again, my perspective is a fishbowl of Okeeheelee just watching skiers for 12 months of the year show up, “ski” and bang their heads while “having fun”.

 

Dano, May 26^th post:

https://ballofspray.com/forums/topic/51731-fix-my-stack/#comment-851927

 

Each Pass, Different set of keys but clear keys which can’t be broken, January 4^th:

https://ballofspray.com/forums/topic/31479-10-things-to-shorten-the-trip-from-zero-to-32-off/page/2/#comment-844917

Edited August 20, 2023 by scoke

[Dano]

@scoke  thanks for taking the time to respond and for the clarification.  I think I pretty much understood it in the ways you have described. Skiing is hard and I’m still trying to crack the code one step at a time.  All the info on here BOS is super helpful. 

[lundberg]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:07 AM, thager said:

I didn't start to really improve until I stopped skiing -15 and -22 passes. Shorten the line to - 28 and use whatever speed necessary to run it. Slowly increase the speed as you get success. 

@thager I took your advice this weekend.  I've been a 15 off skier in the course a long time, just last year running my first 34.2 pass one time.  This year, after loosing a little more weight and trying to understand the dynamics that need to happen between hook up and edge change, I've been improving each time I get a chance to ski in the course.  I started taking shots at 22off with some success running it at 32.3 and 5.5 at 34.2 a month ago.  This weekend I got 6 sets at StellaBlue and gave myself permission to go have fun and try 28off, even right from the dock.  It was so fun and different.  I could feel the dynamics better and realize the things I was "getting away with" at longer lines.  The punchline is that I ran multiple 28offs at 32.3 and rounded 4 ball at 34.2!  I'm pumped and bummed the season is coming to an end for me here in Washington.