Is your rear boot mounted straight or turned on the ski ?

[swbca]

If you are RFF you might find its more comfortable to have the rear boot mounted with your rear foot pointing left a few degrees.  LFF you might have the rear boot pointed with your rear foot pointed right.

It may be more comfortable but what does it do to your skiing performance.  Does it affect the roll of your ski and in turn reduce your ability to get angle in one direction?   Have you ever experimented with this as part of your ski setup ?

[lpskier]

LFF. Right toe rotated right of center, heel rotated left of center. 
 

Rear foot rotation effects your on side turn. 
 

I have spent lots of time dialing in front and rear foot rotation for optimal performance for me. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by lpskier
More complete answer of @swbca ‘s question

[coach3]

@lpskier Can you elaborate, plus and minus's on your findings?

[Than_Bogan]

It feels terrible, especially on my on-side, if I use a dead-straight rear boot: Balance is a problem and even the good turns seem too hard to reliably hold.

However, this kinda bums me out because the rotated rear boot also exaggerates my bow-leggedness and makes it really hard for my knees to go where they ideally should.

[aupatking]

@lpskierI’m curious too. Do you have angle numbers or “just a little more here” or “just a little less this way” type tinkering? My rear (right) knee hurts if I line it up straight. I would love to have an accurate account of “how much heel angle” or “how much toe” or combination of both and what it did. Even if it’s just anecdotal 

[lpskier]

@aupatking well, first of all, I cheat. My ski partner Terence Fogarty (then with business partner Jenn LaPoint) patented the rotationally adjustable binding. Everything I know about binding rotation I learned from them (and some from KLP).

As for measuring, the centerline of the plate is scribed on my Fogman plate. I have a “centering ruler” that I bought at Michael’s craft store. Zero is in the middle of the ruler, like where 6 would be on a normal ruler. Increments are 1/32” so I can put zero on my centerline and quickly verify that my centerline is actually exactly in the center of the ski. Then I can accurately measure my toe and heel distance from center. So adjustments are precise rather than eye balled. 
 

@coach3 Once you have your fore/aft binding location and fin adjustments dialed in, binding rotation is the last fine adjustment to the roll of the ski. For example, I’m LFF and I rotate my front binding toes right, heel left. By doing this, I move my left knee to flexing over the center of the ski rather than quite left of center, which is where it goes if my front binding is fully centered on the ski. This moves pressure from the outside of my ski on my off side turn (“high siding”) to the center, allowing for increased roll on the inside or turning edge of the ski, tightens up the radius of the turn, and balances the turn radius with the on side turn. If your knees naturally flex over the center of the ski, or your turn radius is naturally balanced side to side, rotation may be less important. 

[BraceMaker]

Other I'd say is rear plate straight but heel free.

[swbca]

@lpskierHow much did you rotate your front boot to get the change you needed ?   With my T-Factor boot I can't move the front of the front boot left or right more that about 1/8" without adding inserts.   

Are your rotation adjustments within 1/8" of straight or did you need more than that ?  

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by swbca

[lpskier]

@swbca LFF Toe 1/2” right, heel 3/8” left. I stand with both toes rotated right and both heels rotated left. Most people that rotate both bindings will rotate the front toe to one side and rear toe opposite. If i rotate my front toe to the left, which might be considered “normal,” my knee flexes way off the left edge of the ski and i can’t turn. What works for me won’t necessarily work for you. 

[S1Pitts]

 I have been playing around with rotating front/rear bindings for probably close to 15 yrs. I found that some skis needed the rotation and some did not. Just another variable when setting up a ski.

[Beezer]

So to me it’s a matter of view point as well. My rear heel is in the middle of the ski but my toes are pointed to the left. Feels like my second toe knuckle is in the middle of the ski. If my heel get too far to the right my 1,3,5 (off side) suffers. I feel like I’m gonna fall off the ski at times to the left. To me I feel like I’m in the middle but to look at my RTP its opened to the left. 

[skihart]

@lpskier This is interesting as i ski somewhat bowlegged as well as a LFF.  I recently rotated my rear boot so my toes are to the left more in an effort to get my rear knee more lined up behind my front knee.

I have considered doing the front boot move to the right but figured that was crazy but perhaps it isnt if it works for you.

My goal is to balance my off side turn to my onside. 

[scoke]

4 hours ago, skihart said:

@lpskier This is interesting as i ski somewhat bowlegged as well as a LFF.  I recently rotated my rear boot so my toes are to the left more in an effort to get my rear knee more lined up behind my front knee.

I have considered doing the front boot move to the right but figured that was crazy but perhaps it isnt if it works for you.

My goal is to balance my off side turn to my onside. 

Unless I am misunderstanding, you might be backwards. Quite a few RFF skiers who run buoys cant the toes/rear shell front about  5mm to the left. Especially in powershells.

 

 

 

Reason being:

At the top of the gate it allows for the left leg to be straighter pressing the COM over the balance point of the ski.

Allows for a total clean alignment without squatting on the ski.

Allows for the left hip to be "kicked out" at the top of the gate. 

246: easier for that left hip to open towards the shore as the ski breaks outbound on the second spray. "Back to the buoy" feeling

At the top of 246, left edge of the ski has more pressure, pressing it out and now allowing it be brought under the rope before leaning.

 

If you're running clean, consistent and strong buoys with the toe the wrong direction while improving year over year, more power to ya!

 

Edit: good catch LPskier, 5mm  

good to see you posting. hopefully not from the hospital. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by scoke

[lpskier]

@scoke I agree with your rationale, but  3 to 5 cm is a lot of rotation, even by my standards. I rotate 1.25 cm or maybe a hair more. 5 cm is almost two inches. Typo or wakeboard? 

[DW]

@scoke - in your answer to lpskier you mean rotate correct? 

 

[34mph]

Could rotating / canting my rear foot right as I'm LFF , help with my SI pain I'm getting during summer ? 

[lpskier]

@34mph You won’t know unless you give it a try. 
 

A friend of mine had chronic back pain. He finally met with a surgeon who was also a skier. Surgeon suggested skiing with the opposite foot forward. It took my buddy all summer to figure out how to ski on the opposite foot, but he did it. Now several years later, he’s as good if not better at skiing than he was before, and his back pain is gone. 

[Stevie Boy]

Personally if, I  just tighten my screws , not too tight, my rear rtp finds it natural position (slightly canted) and then I  tighten up, not only a natural stance for the individual, but less stress on the ankles and knees.

If you stand with one foot behind the other, the rear foot will not be straight.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Stevie Boy

[scoke]

@DW

 

yes I did an edit as it was 5mm rear left foot rotated toes. (Not 5cm as I typoed)
 

one of the posters is lff and rotated his rear left as well which is the opposite of what most folks do. 
 

 

Also, I’ve got a reply for you in the thin tailed skis and dft. Just need to type it up. 

[swbca]

Rotating your rear boot for comfort may be screwing up your skiing . . . .

For the last three years I have gone through three skis and was mounting the rear boot angled because it was more comfortable on my left (rear-foot) hip joint.   Yesterday I straightened the rear boot and it solved my offside angle problem between offside turn and edge change; a I problem I had been fighting for the last three years.  It also solved the crappy pullout for the gates because the ski wasn't rolling enough to pull out with strength.      

Thanks to @lpskier I am going to test rotating the front boot to see if it provides additional improvement.  Can only rotate the front a small amount because the T-Factor boot can't be turned much without adding inserts. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by swbca

[lpskier]

@swbca Everyone’s confirmation is different, so whether to rotate and if so which way and how much is going to be different person to person. Glad to hear you’re making progress! 

[DW]

There are several very interesting comments in this thread, things being done opposite of conventional wisdom, significant changes to solve an issue:

1.  rotating the front foot the opposite direction one would expect @lpskier providing the rationale as to why.

2. changing one's stance, yikes, that would take a big relearn again, rationale and ultimate benefit provided making one certainly think about such a drastic change.

3.  how individual a boot rotation affects each person based on leg / ankle / foot geometry.

Another reason this site is such a great resource for addicted skiers.

[101driver]

Does anyone have any experience of rotating bindings on a pair? I want to learn to jump on a pair of jump ski's.

Problem: I had surgery to rebuild my right ankle a few years ago and its ducked out slightly. If I square it off it rotates over so ski goes right. When I started out I could not get up on a pair so I learnt mono and that led to slalom and a whole load of addiction. Now I can ski on one I have learnt to ski on a pair. Got up on a pair of tricks a few weeks ago but right ski "hunts" I have same problem parrellelling on a pair of snow ski's but I am fine if I keep turning.

Borrowed a pair of jump ski's and I could ski on them............so this week finally got my wiley jump bindings for my jump ski's and trying to work out where to mount them. Then I read this thread and started wondering.

IF I duck the binding out say 7 degrees on the right ski my foot would sit flat and so should the ski and should point straight forward. Would this work? can anyone see a problem. Being completely novice I am nervous of the jump and feel having both skis pointing in the same direction would be reassuring.

[swbca]

Have you performed any on-land exercises to determine if the angled mount would cause unhealthy torque on your joint when your knees are bent 90 degrees with your foot held at seven degrees by the ski tracking forward.

Doesn't answer your central question, but perhaps this detail is worth testing on land. 

[101driver]

@swbca Good point, I had not thought of that. So first thoughts are make a sub plate for binding so I can adjust angle easily. Not for jumping just testing on land and water. Start with natural angle ducked out when binding flat on floor. Go through knee bend exercise as if crossing wakes on land and see if angle (pressure on joint or angle of tilt changes. I suspect you may be correct here and there will be a side load on knee or ankle joint felt as a torque due to changing angle under load. Find best compromise then test on water to see if ski runs straight with out my needing to compensate or reset angle of ski. Try land drills on water skiing straight and not compensating and see what ski does.

I am thinking only duck out just enough not the full amount of ankle misalignment?

On the main thread theme I am definitely going to experiment with angle of rear tow plate on my slalom ski after reading the posts above.