What exactly is swing?

[Blofeld]

Can someone explain the concept of swing?

[jjackkrash]

The Spraymakers.  Start listening to the podcasts.

https://radarskis.com/spraymakers

 

[Horton]

@Blofeld I just bumped an old article by Bruce Butterfield that is a great explanation what you are talking about.

 

[Horton]

@Blofeld

In my mind “swing” is the is the energy from the rope that propels the skier after edge change. If the rope is as tight as possible, likely because the handle is close to the skier's mass and the skier is not leaning prematurely toward the pylon, then the skier will be propelled around the pylon and wide on the boat.

[Beezer]

On 9/19/2023 at 3:43 PM, Horton said:

@Blofeld

In my mind “swing” is the is the energy from the rope that propels the skier after edge change. If the rope is as tight as possible, likely because the handle is close to the skier's mass and the skier is not leaning prematurely toward the pylon, then the skier will be propelled around the pylon and wide on the boat.

The part that perplexes me is… Why, when this is achieved,  every thing seems to slow down. I have to be more patient, not rush. The ski becomes glued to the water “as it feels”. To me what you’re describing is adding energy to the system but it feels like I’m slowing down.

Does the boat actually help me slow down if I stay on the handle longer with my mass close to it?

[ToddL]

To me, speed on an early or ideal path feels slower because there is space.  Speed on a late or narrow pass feels fast because there is no perception of space.  

[ReallyGottaSki]

 

Hips up

[MDB1056]

@Blofeld"Swing" itself is the simple pendulum effect.  As @ToddL stated, when utilized correctly this results in the correct path and an early line so things feel slower vs rushed. This is best illustrated over and over by watching pro's at 32-35 warm up passes practically yawning between buoys because they have so much time, where as we mortals often struggle mightily. Of course this is not the only difference but I'm sure you get the point     

[lpskier]

We all go back and forth across the wake, and we are all following the swing of the handle. It’s either that or let go. So I don’t think the skiing concept of swing is necessarily about where the handle goes. To me that’s a different concept. 
 

To me, the concept of swing is about the path you allow you ski to take while your hands hold the handle. If your ski stays underneath you, you ski a straight trajectory toward the buoy and have to try to slam a turn because you lack the space needed for a proper turn. Most likely you are also well out of ideal body position. This is the absence of swing.
 

If you allow your ski to “swing” on the new turning edge, your ski moves away from the handle, creating more space for you to turn, and in the process allowing your body to elongate from slightly compacted by knee bend while the ski moves beneath you in the edge change to tall and aligned while the ski swings to apex (some call this “standing up” but if you only relax your knees to change edges you should still be mostly erect and mostly still in alignment). Then all you have to do is stand still with the weight on your front foot, wait for the ski to come back under the rope at the end of the turn, and go. 
 

Check out a picture of @adamhcaldwellat apex.  Adam, like all the pros, creates maximum space between the ski and the handle at apex, and hence more room at the buoy, by letting his ski swing. You can’t run rope lengths where the handle can’t reach the handle without it.  I would say that by and large everyone that can run 38 knows how to swing and those that can’t run 28 haven’t yet figured it out. 

[Wish]

Well, the handle is on a swing path going around the pylon. Like a kids swing set going around a bar.  We make that happen  by starting at the top of the pendulum (glide for gate set up) and  placing the ski in a direction that swings the rope. Like a swing set, we are the weight at the end of a pendulum where there is a top and bottom, acceleration and deceleration. Depending on the direction we are heading, like a swing set, we have  down swing (from top to center line or bottom) and up swing away from center line or going to the top). Down swing buoy to centerline, upswing centerline to buoy following the handle path. Acceleration on downswing and deceleration on upswing. What I see @lpskier suggesting in part  to me is more like a weak second pendulum off the first, or handle path. First is handle path. Second is us (the weight) separating from that handle under centrifugal force swinging us wider then the handle, but we control this through deceleration on the upswing. Get going to fast and you get slack like a swing set can get slack at the top of the pendulum if the rider carries too much speed to the top. Controlling that swing speed or not is what gets us wide and early or narrow and late. Tight line or slack. 

[Stevie Boy]

Swing , surely most people who were kids at one point in their life, must of gone to the park or play ground and used a swing, the only difference with water skiing is that the crossbar is vertical, build momentum kick through the center line and swing up the other side.

The only real difference is that the crossbar is moving.

Simples 😀

[kmenard]

If you see an upside down pinapple....oh...different kind of swing...nm.

[Jordan]

I think the point that made it click for me was realizing that if you keep the handle close, as you swing outbound and the edge change happens automatically allowing you to maintain outbound direction on the inside edge. 

This keeps the rope tight and allows you to get wide.

[Horton]

I confess that even as a life time skier with scores into 39 I do not have a complete understanding of swing. 

One thing that perplexes me is comments by drivers that some of the best skiers in the world pull the boat around more after edge change than into the wakes. Let that sink in....

At a most basic level swing is boost of energy the skier gets after edge change if they maintain as much connection and direction as possible after edge change.

There is some additional nerd stuff I do not really understand so maybe somebody smart will chime in.