DefectiveDave

I've only ever skied zero-off at ski school and the occasional tournament. I just choose B2 because it's supposedly pretty balanced (and hence the default).

@ToddL, Funny you should say that. I was actually trying that out on the water. The video above is from the 2nd set of the day, so I had made adjustments after viewing the video of the 1st set. I'd noted I was drifting in and so had delayed my pull-out time by about a boat length in comparison to the first set. It the video above I pull out about 40 ft before the pre-gates from my point of view. However, I think my sub-conscience was wise to my plans and I most likely adjusted my intensity during the pullout without thinking about it. I felt like I was drifting in less when I was on the water, but looking back at the video that simply isn't the case. What do you think of increasing the intensity/duration of the pull-out instead?

@rab, I can make it work with a little effort, so no need to send me anything. As far as testing goes, I'm not in a great position at the moment to go out and collect data. We have a newborn daughter at home which limits me to skiing once per week. So when I go out I just try to work on my flaws and have fun. There's just not much time to fiddle around with new hardware and integration unfortunately. I'm also probably not the greatest lab rat, I run 28 off on a good day at 34 mph. To me it seems that the best way to get data for a significant number of people is to work with @dchristman and company, they seem like they have a good thing going with IPA and it's integration with Swerve. I'll support them as best I am able and they can have my current hardware if it helps them out. I'm actually curious if the load data has utility as a performance metric alongside IPA and Swerve. My original thinking when I built it was, "more load = more acceleration" but I now know that to not be true. It's definitely possible to load inefficiently (lots of load) and generate very little acceleration. I'm actually kind of an expert at that! Still, there are most certainly patterns in load time history data that can be used to distinguish a good skier from a not-so-good skier or inhumanly amazing skier. @kfennell and @DW, Those comments alleviate my safety concerns, so getting it up and running should be trivial. Thank you both. I could probably find some decent poly rope at Lowes to complete it. However, even completing it at the moment I'm still left with no time to play with it, haha. So for now I'll wait and see what @dchristman has in mind.

@Wish, @matthewbrown, @ToddL, @Texas6, @A_B, @Chef23, It's been a while, but I finally got back out on the water and was able to take some video. I'm in NC, so this was the first skiable day I've had in a while. It turned out to be a really nice day and despite the long hiatus I actually skied decently. All day I really focused on my gates. My goals came directly from this thread and were to: - get forward on the ski with hips at 10 o'clock before turning in - move hips 10-2 or so with significant intensity I felt really out of sync today, and none of my passes were smooth, but I got all the buoys I normally expect to get. So maybe my gates were better and giving me more margin for error. I felt fast through the gates for the most part, but looking back at the video I'm still drifting in and not getting far enough forward before the gate. Still, it looks and feels like an improvement to me. Obviously from the videos the gates are only one of many problems. All comments are welcome!

@dchristman, I still have the hardware and it works great. However, I kind of stalled at the point where I was going to mount it onto the boat "safely". The problem is how to attach it in such a way as to not damage the rope on either side (bend radius, etc.). I had a solution to that as well that I think would have worked, but I was advised against doing my rope thing for safety purposes. I tried to order some shorter lengths of rope from Masterline to complete the setup, but for such a small order they would never get back to me (I don't blame them). I suppose it would be relatively easy to complete it with some regular poly rope. However, after trying to get rope from Masterline for 3 weeks I got side tracked and haven't gone back to it since. With respect to IPA, my prototype board is a mess. It would be pretty difficult to make it communicate with your setup at this point without some really annoying soldering work. Even then we would probably be limited to I2C or SPI. Path forward to integrate it into IPA would probably include updating the hardware to add wireless comm. and PCB hardware rather than direct soldered wires. Currently I write data to an SD card at around 500 Hz.

Awesome! Congrats @Texas6 . Stick with what worked next time and put 35 in the bag.

@Ed_Johnson , Thanks for posting your review! I know a lot of us are curious about the new supershell and are happy to hear your thoughts. I have a question which I have trouble verifying from the images. Does the new heel support result in any additional heel lift of the boot? I've been using an 1/8" lift on my normal Reflex 750, which I like.

I exceeded my goal this year which was to run 22 off and get a few buoys at 28 off. I've managed to run 28 off several times in the last few weeks. Now my goal is creeping and I hope to get more consistent at 28 off and run 32 off at least once before it's time to pack it in for winter. I also hope to be in much better shape at the beginning of next season. It took me too long this year to get back to baseline and start making improvements. My slalom goal for next year is to transition to 36 MPH and get into 35 off.

@ToddL , Thanks for the great figures! I like the idea of trying to get stacked right behind the boat, makes it easier to get even wider. I actually did try something similar once down at Trophy Lakes last year. @adamhcaldwell told me to shift weight to my front foot and keep it there when carving out. I got about as far as position 3 in your diagram and then went for it. As soon as I started the ski really dug in like it was supposed to and I built load crazy fast, but then the handle kept getting further and further away and I crashed OTF into the shoreline. I haven't tried it since, haha. When I try again I'll need to get all the way to position 4. @Wish , @ToddL , I definitely understand and will keep things simple. I find that if I'm constantly switching my priorities I never make any real progress. Last year I took video of my skiing almost every set and was always trying to fix the problem of the week. I actually lost 2 passes from the middle of the season to the end of the season, haha. There was an injury in there, but I also started losing fundamentals by trying to work on a new bloody thing every single day I went out. This year I stopped video taping almost entirely and made the decision to focus on nothing but stack and handle control. Furthermore I see no reason to focus on anything at this point but the gates. If I can't be stacked and maintain handle control into one ball then I'm screwed throughout the rest of the course anyway. So far this approach has been working very well. I know it doesn't look great from the video, but it is a marked improvement from the beginning of the year. Some days I do go out and just evaluate concepts when I'm not sure where to go next; that was where I was before starting this thread. However, I now know my focus for the next few weeks (or however long it takes). It is 3 sequential things after entering the glide which I think are manageable: 1) Obtain stack 2) Hips clocked outwards slightly to 10-11:00 3) Initiate turn by clocking hips to 1-2:00 I don't plan to consciously think about the rest of it at this point (maybe later once I've nailed the three above). My assumption is that the intensity and timing will come as I play around with it. I plan to just repeat constantly and hope that my body/lizard-brain make the proper adjustments.

Awesome! Watching the webcast and seeing some of the images from these competitions I have to wonder, why aren't the disabled water skiing events better covered in the media? Some of the innovative ways that these athletes compete in the sport are just mind-bogglingly cool. I'm certain there must be some really astonishing and inspirational stories to tell.

I believe I understand. However, I'll try putting it into my own words to see if I really have it. So essentially if you can generate more speed before centerline, you need to adjust to account for that speed. I'm thinking of it as being similar to how you would adjust for a tailwind. If you approach it like a headwind pass then you will have too much speed, apex too late, and be forced to make an inefficient, fast turn at the ball. However, you need to make the smooth transition in order to stay connected (i.e. handle control) or else you can run down the lake (more parallel with the boat) and pick up a bunch of slack.

@A_B, I'll definitely give it a try at some point in the future. I'll work on getting the 11-1 mechanism in place first, because there are clearly some timing and weight transfer issues to figure out. For example, I felt like it was hard to stay forward into the turn-in at higher intensities and I fell back on my ski a bit (well, maybe a lot). Also, sometimes I felt like I killed all my down-course speed and loaded too hard, too soon. I have a quick follow up question: When you say I will need to get off my pull and edge change sooner or risk flying into one ball, is this due to the increased speed or the increased load pulling the handle away from the body after passing centerline?

@Wish, I was able to try it out this evening and it does indeed perform as advertised. Granted, it certainly isn't automatic, but with time, practice, and fine tuning this could definitely be magic sauce. It felt like the ski really dug in and came around; it is a feeling to which I'm just not accustomed and I might have been overdoing it a bit (i.e. intensity from my perspective felt like maybe an 8, but on the GOAT's scale maybe a 3). Despite that I was even able to hook up nicely a few times and felt strong through the wakes with no risk of being pulled out. Unfortunately I wasn't able to catch video. Only two of us out in the boat (the third cancelled) and no wakeye available. We've got nasty rain the rest of this week and I'm out next week on business, but I plan to take video ASAP. I'll repost here once I've done so for a more direct comparison with my previous gates. So after testing, I'm still stoked for the potential.

@Wish, It looks like you were solidifying your statement as I was typing my latest response. What you just said is pretty much exactly what I am thinking now and I think you're definitely onto something here. It's a very simple and actionable movement which has great potential. Thank you sir. I will be trying it out as soon as possible.

@Chef23, Haha, I hope not. I'm trying to internalize everything into just a few basic concepts (or even just one) I can work on one at a time to see what works. I think I might have been able to do that. @Wish, @matthewbrown, @Chef23, @A_B, @bassfooter, I think I'm started to form a picture of what to do here while I was at lunch. Using @Wish initial comment regarding rotation into the course to initiate the turn I think I have a way to satisfy a bunch of different suggestions at once. Using the principle of conservation of angular momentum, a hip rotation towards the course to initiate the turn-in will give the ski a slight outbound angle (upper body rotates right, lower body rotates left). It also so happens that it seems easier to stay forward when rotating the hips this way from my land test 5 minutes ago. The ski will move outbound after the rotation while the skier falls inward, then the ski catches and starts to move under the rope. This is totally backwards from how I've been thinking about it this whole time, but it makes perfect sense theoretically (i.e. if I rotate outwards to initiate the turn as I've been doing then the ski immediately tries to go towards the course and leaves the upper body behind preventing one from making a high intensity turn which has been a problem of mine for some time). So if that theory is correct, then all I really need to do is initiate the turn by rotating in towards the course as @Wish was saying. Then I can adjust the intensity as @matthewbrown was saying by adjusting the hip rotation rate. Then it would be just a matter of adjusting my timing as @bassfooter was saying. In fact, I think it indirectly ties back to what most people were saying just based on the theoretical dynamics of that one motion. After watching @gregy 's videos I definitely think that @Wish is on to something here. It's not that I didn't believe him before (he's a great skier after all), but I didn't really understand it on a physical level and it was very different from what others have said to me. Sometimes we each have to dig to understand a concept on our own terms. I'm giddy with excitement to get a chance to try this now, both because I think there's a lot of potential and it's very different from anything else I've tried with my gates. Of course, I've felt this way before about theory to have it not quite work out, but I will know the next chance I get to practice!

Oops, missed some comments while I was typing my latest response. I will review those later this evening. Thanks guys!

@Wish , I'm not actually trying to do the countery type move, I gave up on that long ago as I couldn't get it to work. However, it is the motivation for my initial 9:30 hip rotation. I'm essentially trying to eliminate the thought process and get countered before the turn-in, but you're right and it's obviously not working, haha. Starting that way makes it very difficult for me to be dynamic on the ski (most likely this leads to @matthewbrown 's observation) and I almost have to rely on the boat initiating my turn by pulling me inward. The original thought was that if I stayed countered and the boat initiated my turn, I would eventually just end up in the correct position open to the boat. However, it turns out it's maybe difficult to maintain the weight balance in that position. So is the goal of the 11:00 rotation you speak of to get the handle to the outside hip? I think I know what you're saying now and I have an idea how to give it a shot next time I'm out. I'll just focus on getting the right hip and weight forward during the glide out, then I can initiate the turn-in by shifting mass towards the gates or 1-ball, whichever works best. @matthewbrown , Thank you for the response, it is very pointed and helpful. I had started to suspect that I might need a bit (or a lot) more intensity in my gate turn-in. I had actually been working on it earlier that same day before I started the video. However, I had to totally change my gate setup from what we saw in the video (because I'm not very dynamic in that starting position) and then had difficulty loading way too much and way too early. It's difficult to say without video, but one of two things was happening: 1) I was trying to turn by dropping my @$$ into the water to initiate the edge change 2) I was trying to turn too late after I started to drift in It could be a combination of both or perhaps the two are related. Next time I go out I'll increase intensity and take some more video. I have a feeling the fault tree will be slightly different, but anything to fix this problem. Thanks!

Also, thanks everyone for the great feedback so far. Something is bound to click sooner or later and I will have lots of stuff to try next time out!

@Chef23, I'll give this a try this a try next time I go out. It looks like I'm going to be free skiing for a while with the way the weather is shaping up. I always feel awkward when I turn in before the line tightens up, but I guess I need to get used to it. Thanks! @A_B, I like the comment about reaching an apex before the turn-in. Maybe I shouldn't feel like I'm on a straight glide before my turn-in. Also, are you RFF or LFF? I'm trying to make sense of some of the comments you made and I'm not sure which direction you're talking about moving your hips when you say left or right hip. Thanks! @gregy, I've had trouble moving so much weight forward. I would say I am generally about 70% on my front foot at max (subjective feel). I generally get worried and feel like the ski is going to slip behind me if I shift too much weight, haha. Maybe it's just that I'm not used to the feel. Also, I have to lift my back heel to make that much weight transfer even possible. Is that what you do? @Wish, That seems like a really easy concept and I'm definitely going to give it a try. However, it sounds like the opposite of what I've heard before. I've generally hear that I want to rotate my hips outward and push them forward as I initiate the turn-in; this is supposed to move my mass forward and keep me open to the boat theoretically (almost like a dreaded "counter-rotation" to initiate). Granted, there is more than one way to skin a cat, but this is actually the first I've heard someone say that I want to rotate my hips to face towards the course to initiate the turn. Am I misunderstanding your meaning? I know that you know what you're talking about and are a much better skier than me. My guess is that I'm probably either misunderstanding you or am missing a critical concept here. @skiep, When you say "all the way up", do you mean as far forward as possible?

@Skoot1123, Whether I feel as though I'm skiing directly at the buoys depends on which pass I'm running. At 15 off, I virtually never feel narrow. At 22 off, maybe 10% of the time. At 28 off, probably around 70% of the time, but I have passes where I feel wide with lots of space when I have good gates. I don't think my form is particularly good, but it's sufficient for those first 2 passes. At 28 off it doesn't quite cut it most of the time. However, if I can get a good enough body position or just brute force keep the handle in close to stay connected going out to the buoy then I can run it. Sometimes it even feels easy, but I have no delusions that I've actually gotten any better (just lucky). I have too many fundamental flaws to get too far beyond 28 off at this point.

@A_B, Thanks for the comment. However, sometimes I need to translate things into terms my body understands, so let me ask a follow up. When I turn into the gate I always feel like I only get a small amount of angle before the boat catches me (I'm not sure if this is normal), and I definitely still need to keep turning a ways before I have enough angle for the gate. However, when the boat catches me I feel as though I need to resist the load to keep from being pulled forward and maybe even out the front. This feeling may be what causes me to fall back. Should I resist the urge to fight the load and let the boat keep pulling me forward? Or do I need to get more angle before the boat catches me? Both questions can probably be answered by not leaning back, but I'm not sure which one my problem is (perhaps both, haha).

@wtrskior Thanks for your comments. What do you mean by "You are drifting in, partly because you give a little too much to get out wide, be more progressive with your lean away from the white water."? I don't understand the give a little too much part. My logic behind the hip rotation outward is that it opens me up to the boat once the ski has come around since I'm RFF and prevents me from leading with my upper body by forcing the hips to move instead. Of course, I'm definitely not saying its the right thing to do. It seems to me that moving the left hip forward would accomplish the same thing for LFF. Is that kind of logic flawed? @bassfooter, Unfortunately that's how long I normally wait for my turn in. Actually without the gates to distract me I turn in exactly when I want every time, haha. Maybe I need a gate turn-in speed calibration.

@bassfooter Thanks for the insight. What's happening in the course is I'm having a hard time getting good gates @ 28 off. I get pulled narrow into 1 ball and catch what i feel is a large amount of slack. On the rare occasions that I get good gates I tend to run the pass or come close. With bad gates I'm lucky to get 3 ball. There are definitely other things I can work on, but right now the gate feels like it has the potential for the biggest gains so I'm focusing on it for the next few weeks. I've got to stay focused on one thing to make any real gains. Reading your comments and going back into the video, perhaps I am getting on my back foot. I feel forward on the glide and am in fact pushing my weight forward, but I guess I fall back when its time to edge into the course. I wonder if I'm waiting too late to turn in and have lost too much speed; as you mentioned I'm drifting inward. This could potentially generate load early and pull the handle away.

Hey Ballers, I badly need some help with my gates. I feel like I just can't get a good stack going into 1 ball. The lake was blown out the other day and I did some free skiing in a cove to exclusively work on my gate shot (28 off @ 34 mph). Here is the video where the first set of gate shots is a 9 mph tail wind and the second set is the accompanying head wind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85ugsZLgmh0 In that video I'm trying really hard to do 3 things: 1) Get wide on the boat before pull in 2) Get forward and turn my hips away from the coarse before initiating the gate shot 3) Keep the handle as close to my hips as possible from the time I start my glide to the time I get through the 2nd wake I think I'm getting 2.5 of those things right, but I lose the handle and any hope of a stack by the time I reach the first white water. Then I overload about the time I reach the first wake and start getting pulled out of my lean. The worst example of this is the last pull in the video. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

This was a great reminder to have going out today, ran my first 28off. Thanks @CParrish43!