DynaSkiPete

Are inboard props expensive? Hard to change? Obviously on outboards it is easy to change and not terribly expensive.

Was the boat a slug when it was purchased used?

These are slalom boats not all around ski boats?

I'd say almost 50% of the boats we sell have a front bucket seat. If I did not offer an option I doubt it would slow sales any though. I never said in outboard was better than an inboard. Outboards have smaller wakes, are faster accelerating, have a higher top end, use less fuel, back up easier and are lighter to trailer, did I miss any? Inboards seem the be the boat of choice for many of the slalom buoy rounding people. Outboards can be made to produce large wakes it just takes weight added to the boat. More than an inboard. It is funny how this topic has changed . . . . . . . .

So you don't think I know the "advantages". That is funny. My wife likes the swivel bucket, hates the bench. Case closed. Really stretching it guys to justify an old school, old style design. Flexibility to get exactly what the customer wants is the new norm. Some manufacturers are scratching to make improvements every year to get folks to part with a lot of money to replace the old "outdated" boats. Since either seat can be ordered this is the best solution. It may not be long before a plain old direct drive is hard to get as the wake surfers and such become the market. The large public lake I live on has several inboards with towers. The owners mainly pull tubers. I'm seeing more and more Zup board users. Way more show skiers mainly swivel skiers than slalom skiers. In fact if there is one slalom skier a week I'd be surprised. Granted I'm not here on about half of the weekends and many week days it is very slow on the lake which is the beauty of this like.

The old 18' was a foot narrower the the 17.6 & 20 which allowed it tip from side to side more. Our boats can be purchased with a spotter bucket on a swivel or a rear facing bench. I don't understand why anyone would want to ride around the lake not being able to look forward when not pulling skiers. I'd never own a boat with a rear facing front bench. Very old school, single purpose design but cheaper and easier to make.

Boats have a tracking fin. Not good without it. Pylon can be ordered just behind the front seats. No advantage I'm told by owners/users. The pylon can be moved to just in front of the motor well area if someone orders this option in the 17.6 Open Bow. The Open Bow 20' actually offers 3 positions: behind the front seats, in front of the sun deck and in front of the motor well behind the sun deck. I have one picture provided by an owner I will share of someone slaloming behind a 17.6 Open Bow. It is the only picture I have like this I think. It answers the question about height of pylon. The pylon comes in various lengths and has some adjustment via the bracket on the floor. We size it according to the motor height usually.

I have taught people to drive using the tachometer with the GPS speedometer to get them in range. However I have no slalom skiers or course. If they go by the GPS speedometers with tenths of a mph readouts they do see saw the throttle.

Remember someone asked. I have driven lots of inboards. Frankly they are kind of slow accelerating and on the top end. They feel a little clumsy at times. As for skiing, the larger wakes are better for wake boarding, trick skiing and knee boarding for doing flips off the wakes. WE don't have a slalom course and I have no friends that slalom much so I've never used the speed control systems. I'm not interest in a "pull". If I wanted an inboard even to compare I'd just buy one use it and resell it for testing purposes. I did that to study a Flightcraft outboard when I explored building a similar to it barefoot outboard. It was supposedly one of the best models. The people that were real interested failed to provide the resources or orders to make it happen. I sold it at a profit 3 or 4 years later. Now at age 62+ with spinal stenosis I ski on a pair of big skis. Recovering from surgery to repair a broken right leg (near the hip) is a slow process. I'm hoping to ski again this summer on my pair of skis. Frankly it sucks. The stenosis does not heal. It occurred at age 46. I miss bare footing, jumping (I sucked), free slalom skiing, shoe skis, trick skis, etc. Most slalom tournament skiers will never be happy with an outboard, I get that. This list is slalom skiers still the feedback is interesting. There are also more outboard or former outboard skiers in this group than people realize.

Thanks. A participant in this forum has explained to me in great detail how the various systems work and have progressed. It is interesting and informative. I don't read manuals and most men don't. Slalom skiers really don't want a steady speed. The characteristics of the boat motor adding and reducing power will make it easier to run the course. If the steady pull was from a cable type of system this also would not be ideal for skiers. I have found an owner and user of the Mercury Smart Tow system. He is passively shopping a Dyna-Ski. Hopefully I will learn how this system works from him and the one we are building. I sure wish all slalom skiers would write, email or call Evinrude to encourage them to figured out how to make a system work on their motors or opened the door to one of the speed control manufacturers to do this. Imagine grandpa's pontoon or fishing boat with a speed control system for the grand kids.

While I don't intend to go the USA Water Ski sanctioning route, one never knows down the line what could happen. Several years ago I was approached about taking a twin to the tow boat testing by a company that could. I passed. People are correct that this group is a small unique group and not one I'd really target. I like the information though and appreciate all your time responding. I do read them all and I have learned a few things. All of you could learn by skiing with a show ski club after all that division is growing so they must be doing something good.

I guess I'm having trouble understanding how a speed control system works. Isn't the idea for the boat to remain at a constant speed the whole time thru a slalom course? A jumper needs a solid steady pull to the ramp? Obviously the trick skier wants a constant speed as would a wake boarder? I have to ask a couple inboard owners I know for a demonstration perhaps? As far as the touchy throttle with little or big twin motors. With electronic controls touchy is hardly the case with any motors. It really is throttle by wire. You can easily adjust RPM's by as little as 25 and 50. The gear cases are all the same size on the above 150 motors and the same props can be used on any of them. The only difference will be the motor weight differences which is 530 vs 418 so 102 lbs a motor. 200 lbs on the back of one of my boats is not a huge difference. Putting the fuel tank or tanks in the bow would move more than the weight difference. If we do the batteries that is more weight off the transom area. I found some old AWSA testing scores. The list includes some Hydrodyne Outboards. The higher the score the better it appears. Can anyone guess the year based on the boats tested? I do not know it. My guess is mid 1980's.

There are a number of inexpensive ($100) GPS Speedometers on the market. I've tried a couple and they are decent for the money. My outboard has a GPS that reads in tenths and is very fast to react. Might even be to fast. To bad Airguide does not make one. The Livorsi Water Ski Speedometer is one of the best. Also the most expensive. The second one can be had from Lowrance as Evinrude does not sell it anymore. Compared to the cost of even a used water ski boat an add on GPS Speedometer is pretty cheap I think.

It is interesting to read all your comments. Sadly many are not based on using a well set up modern outboard and driving or skiing behind one. The speed holding of a well set up single motored outboard boat would amaze most of you. A twin motored boat would shock you. We can talk about fuel consumption in a post if you like. The standard NEMA 2000 software and gauges available on modern outboards will give MPG and several other fuel consumption things real time now. Do the inboards do this? I don't expect to sell any boats from this forum. Honestly I don't need to. What I value is information and feedback even the negative ones. We will build bigger boarding platforms. It is a fall project right now. I may build a twin motored open bow outboard. We talked about it again today in the boat shop and will put together the numbers to do it. Obviously the twin motors will mean some compromises and boarding platforms size will suffer. Twin Open Bow may be a play pen type to allow the single fuel tank to be in the nose. Otherwise it will be twin tanks under the front seats. Twin tanks will cost more obviously. I'm going to dig thru my archives and find the old AWSA Boat testing stuff when they tested two old 19' 4" Hydrodynes. They called them 20' but they were 8" short of 20'. Our boats are 20' 1" which eliminated the teeter tottering of some outboards on and off plane at slower speeds. Yes the Hydrodynes used to do this. The 17.6 never suffered from this to the best of my knowledge and a I have a 1987. They were introduced in 1986 and the last ones were made in 1991 or 1992. I'm hoping that some of you take the challenge and slalom behind a ski team twin or triple motored boat sometime. Then tell us about it.

The new outboards require the owners to purchase nothing and any updates which are very few are done by the motor dealers. The motor dealers do need to have software, a cable and a laptop. Given what they typically charge per hour and that the computer usually tells them what is wrong it is now little diagnosing is required. Most of the training is available on line. Pretty simple stuff with modern outboards.

Horton twin motored Hydrodynes and Crosby Outboards were the first tournament tow boats in three event tournaments. This is one of the few active web sites with lots of very active participants which is great! Feedback here is appreciated. Interesting comments. Building a 20' 1" long, 84" beam boat that has had three 350 hp Mercury Verado engines on it is nuts. Two 300 motors is child's play. Two motors make the boat rock solid for tracking. The fuel consumption of twin 300's would not be bad at all compared to most of the larger single inboard motors. I actually have a fuel economy meter on my outboard but that is another discussion. The twin tanks would be under the front seats helping weight distribution. Addressing the boarding or swim platform is a concern but a person that wants two motors might not get the ideal for everyone platform. Frankly few if any buyers so far are concerned about the platforms we have. The slalom skiers that have purchased boats said they are surprised how well the existing platforms work out. Sit on the back of the boat, put the ski on the platform, feet in bindings and hop in. I have never tried it as I live on a lake. I am no longer able to slalom ski (spinal stenosis) and only did buoys a couple times. I was not good. We hop off the end of the dock or do a sitting start from the dock's end. I suspect most of our customers don't need platforms. Usually one platform gets a boarding ladder and one does not. Why any manufacturers don't have a boarding ladder is a mystery to me. Having two motors will mean speed control is less of an issue. The speed tends to stay where you put it. Seriously. Mercury Smart Tow is very good I have been told by users and assured by Mercury. Their built in launch controls I don't think will work properly as they are likely to be way to fast of pulls for one person on a slalom ski. If anything the boat will be hard to drive for many when pulling only one person out of the water slowly. Three motors takes great finesse of the throttle controls for light ski loads. Two motors can be tough as well. Electronic controls aide this situation greatly. The boat can be made to go way faster than is needed with two motors. Most of the show ski boats run into the high 40's or low 50's on the GPS. They want pulling power. I don't want or need to prove any naysayers wrong. No need as they will always find something wrong with an outboard. Imagine if the tournament folks had stuck with twin outboards as they started out with them many long years ago . . . . . . . . they say history repeats itself.

The postings I see and read make me think the electronics are no longer simple and trouble free. Need updates, have bugs, some versions better than others, etc.

My good friend has been wanting me to build a 20' Open Bow with twin outboard motors. It just occurred to me to ask this group what your thoughts are. Yes I know many of you don't think outboards are acceptable tow boats for slalom courses and they may not be. However many water skiers like outboards. Some of them even ski the course. Many show ski parents buy an inboard when dad would really love two motors on his boat. The speed holding will be amazing without "cruise control". Nothing like the torque with two motors and two props. Acceleration will blow your mind. Yes the prop bubbles will be greater. It should be able to make big wakes with a little trim. Boat weight will be similar to smaller inboard direct drive models and the think the wake will be too. Prices should be around $70 K water ready on a trailer but could vary quite a bit due to the price differences between twin 150's and twin 300's. Your thoughts?

Northeastern Wisconsin and not far from da UP.

The demo people tend to take very good care of their boats because they want to resell them. Buying a demo is not at all like buying a used boat. Anything can be made to look good. I'd take a used boat to a good boat mechanic if I did not have a maintenance history.

Fastenal

Suggesting people buy an old boat is interesting. While I know many of you own old boats I still don't think it is wise unless you bought the boat new and aged it yourself. A used product may have not been treated well and had scheduled maintenance done timely. One never quite knows what they are getting do they? Would anyone buy a rental vehicle from any of the car rental companies? I would not. I know people that are rough on everything they own. I also know people that take great care of their stuff. If the seller can provide a maintenance log or refer you to the dealer that did the work that is a solid indication the boat or vehicle has been well taken care of. If not move on. Plenty of nice used boats out there as supply exceeds demand. It is was me I'd save my money longer for a new boat or find a way to afford peace of mind sooner.

Facebook has ruined lots of people's lives including costing people their jobs. I avoid most social media. I have an account but I don't say anything.

I do like to try stuff before I buy stuff. I tend to place a value on comments slamming a product as BS.

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