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Wow ! I suppose their pro team uses those numbers to select a matching ski, or intentionally a different ski with different values. That's a long way from my wood Obrien . . Leroy Burnett vintage.

Were those values from a test of that ski, or a test of a prototype ?

I opened the hardware bag today and found this . . What are the values for TIP,FWD,MID,TAIL ? My Guess . . . fiber layup specs to predict stiffness in different zones . . . or less likely, post production test values.

@Gloersen uses a SlackBlock made by SlackBow and he recommended it to me. The product video suggests reaching a point where you can balance on the device for 2 minute intervals on each foot. With practice, your motor system takes over and you can do it. "Muscle Memory" is actually "Motor-System" memory where the muscle movements to stay balanced are no longer driven by the brain - the nervous system in your legs takes over - your balance, leg strength and reflexes are developed. @Gloersen and I found we both had the idea of converting it into a 2-foot balance tool in slalom skiing position, though he did it with a different design. With this modification, the front and back have independent compression, so you can also move tip down, like in your pre-turn and then neutral or back all while balancing. Instead of 2 minutes on 1 foot, you can do 5 or 10 minutes on 2 feet . . . . after weeks of practice. I am in M9 and now. . . when my wife challenges me to a some yoga position contest balancing on 1 foot on the kitchen floor, we stop because of boredom, not because I can't balance. replace the original Velcro sticky tape for the longer platform heat the original velcro tape before removing it from the foam to prevent damage to foam varnish or epoxy coat the wood so Velcro sticky tape will adhere Yes at $70 its an expensive piece of engineered rubber foam

@BG1 Thanks - In my posts above I said I am switching to the symmetrical grip - I have already started with dry-land exercises. I have vivid memories of never getting any angle on my off-side after coming in late - I was all twisted up with the wrong grip.

@BG1 My distance prescription is the same as 2.0 reading glasses. So if I need glasses that fit under my snow ski goggles I can get them at Walgreens for $10.00. In my original post, I said "Plain 2.0" meaning no astigmatism.

Most boats have a bump at 22off. The 197 is a great boat . . let condition, price and your test drive be the big factors. If you plan on skiing in tournaments, you will want to have updated Perfect Pass speed control. If PP hasn't been updated it costs about 1200 to update it yourself to the latest version which includes GPS, Accelerometer sensing and the new Gauge for the dashboard. According to most accounts, the latest updates are close enough to ZO used in the new boats in tournaments.

THANKS EVERYBODY FOR ALL THE HELP !! BOS is a great resource for everything slalom.

I could wait a few months to answer this question myself, but I am sure some of you know the answer. We installed a submersible course through the ice 2 weeks ago; resuming competitive skiing with older vision. Is it better to have corrective lenses than blurry vision, or does the spray on the lenses make it a net loss ? My distance prescription is a plain 2.0 diopter reading lens. These 2.0 safety glasses would do the job, unless water on the lenses is too much of a distraction. At 3 for $25.00 on Amazon losing a pair is no problem. I bought one pair and the optical quality is good. Has anyone used an agent to disperse the water ? like Rainex ?

I have been wrong since 1959. I know switching will help but I don't think I will be able to get up with a deep water start with both feet in . . . I guess I will switch after I'm up.

@Roger Re KLP setting records before or after changing his Grip . . this is just trivia, but he would have been in his mid-40s 20 years ago so Open Men world records were probably going to the newer guys after he switched grip. Grip is probably a small thing -or nothing- to many skiers - but everyone is looking for the next small thing that might help. When your running early in the course it probably makes no difference . . might help with your body position when your near your limit.

@ForrestGump You said "There are way more things to worry about than which direction your grip is" The amount of worry depends on what your gripping.

@CBR51 @skierjp Glad to hear making the change helped you. I don't know if its a habit that can be changed during off-season, but I am going to work on it. I just added a few buoys to my wildest dreams.

@skibrain I bought Carl's boat and skied at his school for a week . . . he should have said something about my wrong grip.

All of these world record holders are right foot forward with right palm down grip on the handle. (sorry that women are under-represented in this sample) I was doing OK during 20 years of competition, a couple of National titles while living in Minnesota, but I realized TODAY that I have been doing it wrong my whole life. . . with right foot forward - left palm down. Since its winter and I can't ski, this is my latest dive into what might be trivia - Most agree that everyone has an on-side and off-side turn . . with some of the best skiers left and right are equal but always different in execution. Because grip position affects shoulders and upper body, I believe everyone has on-side and off-side grip on the handle where the skier's grip works better for getting into a Stacked Position on one side. The effect may be subtle depending on the skier and the ski, but using the "wrong" grip adds a second awkward body-to-equipment position in your off-side turn. (foot position + hand position) Plus, your on-side turn may not be affected one way or the other by your grip position. Is your front foot and your palm down hand on the same side ? . . both-left or both-right like the record holders ?

@ALP @Stevie Boy Encouraging comments . . At 30mph, I've heard you need to avoid the hits you can take at short lines when you have no speed behind the ball and the boat is taking its time to get ahead of you. I suppose that's technique and suitable ski for the speed.

@Horton I have a 68" D3 ION that I haven't tried. Since everything is new to me, including skiing, I will just learn how to ski that ski. I will be skiing at 170lbs, so a 68" ski should help stay afloat at 30mph.

@Bruce_Butterfield I didn't say that all the early 80's boats had a great wake. The 1986 MasterCraft had the smallest wake of all boats to that date. It was a new hull with the same pre 86 deck, marketed as the first "no-wake" boat . . I traded my 84 Correct Craft for the 86 Master Craft because the CC wrecked my knees with a much larger wake. I had 100's of hours with both boats and I am clear on the difference. My post was not me "axle wrapping" which sounds like an unnecessary pejorative . . . I am curious about the M8, M9 skiers experience of wake impact at 30,32 mph because my knees are my "achilles heal" that could bag this entire endeavor. I am not worried about wakes in tournaments . . . I am trying to figure out if a normal schedule of practicing at 30mph could be a problem that might prevent me from skiing . . . it happened to me before . . . learning all I can before summer is part of my preparation and this forum is backed with a wealth of experience. (In my first post I mistakenly said 1985 ProStar. . its 1986)

This is the "fix" to take any residual tension away from the horizontal ropes as the course buoys approach their final floating position with the winch unwound. It fixes a 6" longitudinal error in the final position of some skier buoys.

After skiing at 36mph in Boy's and Men's divisions for 20 years, I ended up getting surgery on both knees from the sharp impact on the wake, and traded my 1982 Ski Nautique for a 1985 ProStar . . the first major brand flat wake boat. For those of you in M7 or beyond did the lower boat speeds reduce the impact on the wake ? or does the wake just get bigger ? Unlike my 1985 ProStar, the 2004 ProStar wake grows fast when you start slowing down from 36. The 1985 Prostar hull was sort of a flat slab compared to later models that were designed to eliminate spray and have a trick wake.

@HORTON It seems pretty well settled that the two systems are fairly similar, so my question was about latency. Does the skier experience acceleration with these systems at unwanted times because the system is reacting to the skier . . rather than being in-sync with the skier. The other question was about the amplitude of boat speed change ? Is the boat speed swinging within a 1 mph range for example or is it more steady than that . . With the example skier; 180 pound 35off/34. Thanks

Haven't skied behind either, though I now have latest PP w/StarGazer on my boat in Winter storage. Some live drivers are really easy to ski behind and some not . . they anticipate the skier, not react to the skier. I asked a lot of questions but never learned if these speed control systems are in sync with the skier maintaining a near constant speed, or if there is latency causing noticeable acceleration as you approach the wake. I have only talked to one skiing friend with a ZO boat and he says you need to practice behind a ZO boat to ski in tournaments. On this forum others have said the 2 systems are similar enough - if the PP is a recent software version. So the questions are about latency and boat speed fluctuation as the speed control reacts to the skier. Does the boat stay in a +/- 1 mph speed, or is it +/- 1/2 mph ? or what do you think ? (for example with a 180 pound skier 35off/34)

@lpskier @GregHind @RichardDoane @dbutcher @HORTON Thanks for you encouragement and guidance with my effort to go from M3 to M9 with nothing in-between. This forum is an invaluable resource in preparing for this effort. Also should mention this forum platform (software and management) is technically one of the best I have seen on any special interest topic. Its easy to go off the rails without the benefits of this community of knowledge and experience. Case in point . . In September I tried skiing for the first time in several years. :) I got up with both feet in on my very old Lapoint Radius. :) Same with my son's newer vintage Obrien. The next day I tried my new D3 Evo with an HO HiMax shell and the Radar Hybrid kick-in rear. I couldn't get up with 2 feet in, or 1 foot in, or by dropping a ski. After spending hours on this forum, now I understand why @HORTON is insistent that I start with Wiley bindings. In the lengthy Boot forum, many skiers commented that they couldn't get up, or pull out in advance of the course with a new shell or some other new arrangement. Someone asked why I am starting again from scratch. I felt like I was wasting the last viable decade of pursuing something physical . . . a motivator for health and fitness, and something to pursue without compromise. Could have been Nastar ski racing or this. But this will be a life changer if it works out. Many guys I have known since being a teenager are still skiing in M6 - M10. They ski in the Nationals and one of trick skiers placed 2nd in World tournament. I bought his ProStar boat because he needed a current model Nautique to practice for the next world tournament. Sounded like fun to me.

@PREGOM You warned that stainless steel tubing could corrode. The pre-made 180 degree tubes are for vehicle exhaust systems. Perhaps you don't have enough info, but do you think the stainless could deteriorate enough for it to be a structural problem over 5 years in a clear freshwater lake ? My concern would be corrosion being abrasive to poly rope passing through it. With frequent use, the rope would keep the steel polished, but the course is only used 5 months of the year. Cold and 70 feet deep would have less oxygen . . right ? Maybe going back to copper would be better.

Ranking notations * # On the individual rankings I get that the Asterix means Penalty for having less the 3 qualifying events, but what does # mean. I looked at rule 1.13 but didn't figure it out.