swbca

@OldboyII  @BraceMaker's  point sheds some light on why this a greater problem for me this season than before.  This season I was on a KD Titanium ski.  The tail of this 66" ski is narrower than the skis I was using the prior two years.  The stock binding position is also further back than my 66" D3 ION.   As @Horton said "the KD Titanium runs skis deep in the water"   The narrow tail would cause the ski to resist getting level with the deep water start.  Keeping the tip high in the water at the start as you and others have suggested sounds good.   Thanks.

THIS POST REPLACES THE IMAGES LOST IN BOS MIGRATION TO ITS NEW PLATFORM
(RE-POSTED NOW AT MEMBER REQUESTS)
BOS Platform doesn't permit adding images to the original thread so had to start this new thread.

LINK TO ORIGINAL THREAD 

The images are from an article I wrote for the July/August 1983 AWSA Water Skier magazine. 

We used this course from 1975 to 1992, when we moved away from this lake.

Quick Review:  This submersible course was originally installed in 1975 on Christmas Lake in Minnesota.  Later improvements added an electric winch with a dash-mounted radio remote control  in our Ski Nautique and in our house.  Another later improvement added 2" PVC spreaders at the sub buoy LEVEL to improve the width accuracy of the course.    

Was it really the worlds first submersible course ?   Can't be sure, but I later learned that Mike Suyderhoud patented his submersible cable course in 1976, a year after ours was installed.

From July 1983 WaterSkier magazine - The red ball in the middle of the course was added later to offset any friction in the line to the winch on shore that could distort the course by a few inches.

This is how I made the center anchor in 2021.  To avoid handling a 700 pound anchor I poured the concrete with the wood form pre-staged on the shoreline, so it could be pulled into position after it was setup.  Used 4" PVC this time instead of 3" PVC

@JordanI have done what you suggest occasionally.  I noticed that a few of the pro skiers almost look like they are starting with straight legs because they are up with shoulders back almost immediately.  I will make a point of doing your way every time.  I think I need my driver to startup a little faster as well. 

Even after skiing in over 100 tournaments in my earlier lifetime, I now have an occasional problem that I never had before.  

I do about 30 deep water starts per week.  3 or 4 times each skiing season my start with dual boots fails because my ski gets trapped up against rope as the boat accelerates and then its over.  I can't always keep the tip of the ski in one place as the boat idles forward before I say "GO".   One of my drivers just comes back and says "NEXT SKIER".    

If I hold the ski about 20 degrees to the right to keep it away from the rope, it plows sideways and doesn't turn towards the boat when the boat accelerates.

Can the solution to this problem be put into words ? 

I think I have bought 3 boat upholstery cleaners that claim to help with mildew.  None of them did anything.   I did a test area with straight household bleach and that worked fairly well but it took minutes of scrubbing with a cloth.  I know that bleach can be rough on the boat seats.   Any other suggestions that work ?

Our boat is tucked up tight in a canopy but overnight dew still settles.

Its common sense that obstructions shouldn't be located within the area where competitors may to ski to score points in a slalom event.   100's of S-Turns are a regular part of the training and tournament experience for top skiers. 

Even with the possibility of sun glare or night competition skiers should be assured there is nothing to hit between the start and exit gate when executing a skier path used for scoring points.  

The tournament operator would be no defense in a lawsuit.  We have all skied at tournaments where a shoreline or jump could be hit by a skier in a high speed fall when or after crossing the wake.  That not the same as an obstruction withing the slalom course.

Along with the camera work, the expert commentary by guest skiers and TWBC staff experts made the Travers Grand Prix the best TV coverage of this sport event that I can remember.    I have watched water skiing coverage all the way back to the World Tournament in Mexico about 50 years, then ABC Wide World of Sports and later ESPN.  In this event TWBC also did more in this event to integrate fellow competitors into the skier interviews and color commentary.  Competitive skiers can actually learn more about the sport from commentary in TWBC coverage.  Thanks TWBC !   

My question was . . . at 43 off Nate was held inside the line of skier buoys by the rope.  How could the ramp be in his way ?  Unless it was inside the line of skier buoys.

You all saw Nate abort his S turn after the 1 ball at 43 off because he was going to collide with jump.  Was the jump anchored inside the line of skier bouys.  The rope is about 6 feet shorter than the width of the course ?  and he was still holding rope.

Do you have to have to forget about your tournament PB's after they get real old ?   

My first PB of note was at 36mph / 36off . . way back in the early 70's before metric
Then 36mph /  35off late in the 70's
Then 34mph / 38off in the mid 80's

That's all I got.  No more PB's, so I think I'll still count them even though everything has changed including ZERO Off, skis, boats and drivers.

@SkiLife The course drawings only exist in an article I wrote for a 1980's AWSA Water Skier Magazine.  I will be at our home where I have a copy of that magazine next week.    I will post the drawings next week.  (Week of September 25, 2023)  

@BraceMakerAdding this comment in the event someone uses this thread for a reference while adding a 4x4 wood bumper like illustrated in the post above.

Since adding the 4x4 bumper I found that having the lift slightly twisted, such as 2 inch low on one corner , can cause the front of the boat to shift left or right a few inches as it is lifted out of water.  It slides on the front of the two bunks to find its happy position.  This would conflict with the keel roller shown above.   I don't have the keel roller and my boat lift is twisted 2" after several moves to find deeper water in a draught this summer.  The boat shifts about 3' right of center even though the bunks are exactly left/right symmetrical on the cradle.   The feet height adjustments on the lift don't always let you get a perfectly level lift without  removing sand under some of the feet. 

Will be winterizing our 2014 ProStar 197 next week and putting in a new impellor at the same time.  No issues now.   Knowing that engine overheating should be avoided at all costs, is there an alert to bring an over-heating problem to the attention of the driver.  Obviously know one watches the TEMP gauge continuously. 

22 minutes ago, Blofeld said:

@swbca T-Factors are not safety focused bindings. They do not release unless the laces are very loose. 

I think my comments were balanced on the safety issue.  

24 minutes ago, Horton said:

@Than_Bogan

IWWF

8.08: A Miss or "Riding Over"
a) Skier Turn Buoys. It is a miss to ride inside a turn buoy, or to ride over, straddle, or jump a turn buoy.
There is no penalty for grazing a turn buoy with the ski or part of the body. Riding over shall be defined
as hitting a turn buoy with the ski so as to move it significantly from its position or temporarily sink it.
Hitting a turn buoy less severely shall be considered as grazing.......

8.09: Scoring Buoys
A buoy not missed is scored as follows, up to the point of the first miss:......

So what is your verdict ?   Does this instance count as "riding over" .   Still looks like 1/2 to me.   

Another more simple option is to go with the T-Factor boot(s) which are a rubber boots with laces.  There are a few top pros that use these including the World Record Holder.  I have had T-Factors for three years but have never had a fall that would require a release.   But many others skiers on this forum use the T-Factors and say they have always released with no injury.  Part of the decision is your tendency to fall.  If you have uncontrolled falls more that couple of times per season,  boots that have a mechanical release may be a better option.

It looks like the edge of the ski will be outside the ball when the skiers ankle passes over the ball.  The ski will be outside the ball when the back half of the ski passes by the ball.

The ball was flattened on the top for a moment but it wasn't significantly moved or submerged.   

Its a heavy Graze but I would call it a Graze.   

Re compatibility with other brands. The inserts in skis for the fin blocks are not entirely standardized.  I tried a D3 Fin Block on a KD ski and the insert spacing was not the same.  In another thread @Horton says there is fin block compatibility between some manufactures but not all.

Fins are not always standardized either.  With D3 and KD the cutouts in the fin for the clamp bolts are spaced differently preventing full DFT adjustment if you try swapping fins between blocks.  This incompatibility can fixed by modifying the clamp bolt cutouts on the fin.

The finish on most modern skis is fairly soluble, so products as mild as Goo-Gone will soften and damage the finish.  The color of a ski will wipe right off on a rag with lacquer thinner.   In general the finish on skis is not resistant to solvents.  Unlike Gel Coat or most most industrial paints.

It may not look great but it won't affect the strength of the your ski.

I learned this from experience on D3, KD and other brands.   I bought a slightly used KD Titanium where the owners child put some dinosaur stickers on the ski.   I could not get the sticker adhesive off the ski without damaging the finish.

Have you performed any on-land exercises to determine if the angled mount would cause unhealthy torque on your joint when your knees are bent 90 degrees with your foot held at seven degrees by the ski tracking forward.

Doesn't answer your central question, but perhaps this detail is worth testing on land. 

On 4/30/2015 at 8:45 AM, swc5150 said:

I think it was Kris LaPoint in the late 80's who was messing around with an experimental wing, that could be controlled by his rear foot. It could add angle before the ball, but ended up not being a viable solution...likely for a couple of reasons. KLP has never been afraid to experiment with gear.

Somehow this old thread popped up . . . . The last time I read the rules, moving parts (control surfaces) were not permitted on the skis.

@BraceMaker  Thanks for your input.  Because our bed has to be so low to deal with shallow water, there is no room for a 3" PVC mounted on top of the cradle.  The prop is 7" from the rear cradle cross member when the front fin hits this 4x4 bumper.  The keel of the boat clears the 4x4 by 1/8".

This solution doesn't have any flexibility like a 7 foot long piece of PVC but the lift itself is low mass and flexible if the boat is only going slightly too fast.  I had the 4x4 and lag bolts on hand so this is what fits and it works.     (It was easier to photoshop than take a picture this rainy morning.)

Thanks

@skimtbYES.  For three years I have been the only person to drive our boat into the lift because I don't want a damaged prop.  My wife has become a good slalom driver, but can't judge when the boat is exactly stopped when landing at a dock.  She doesn't leave it in reverse long enough or too long after 100's of landings.  I manually position the boat in the boat lift using visual markers, but sometimes strong wind conditions make it difficult.  If other people were landing our boat in the lift, I am certain there would have been contact between the prop and the lift.

@BraceMaker   Because of chronic shallow water problems and almost ZERO slope as we move further from shore, our Bed is a low as it can be on the lift, so the keel clears the front cross member only by 2".   As an alternative what about fastening the 3" PVC to the vertical bed supports so the PVC just clears the keel.   The 2 vertical supports are about 3 feet apart so it would be a stiffer hit.  The boat would stop with about 10" clearance between prop and rear cradle member. 

1 hour ago, BraceMaker said:

Skip the laminated wood - we've always just done this with PVC pipe across the lift cradle using a U bolt.  ours is 3" has enough give that if you come in a smidge hot it isn't a hard stop. But is stiff enough to prevent too much forward motion.

 

I assume the front fin contacts the PC ?