35 in the bag

Based on the photo it IS a Miss. I don't understand how that could be argued! Reality is that at real time it would be difficult...if not impossible to decern for certain that it was a miss......therefor "by rule" (not favortism, or 1st or last pass, or kid, or Andy, or MS judging Horton) the benifit goes to the skier. Period. The bouy is awarded (1/4, 1/2, 1 as appropriate) The operative point is the certainty of what the judge thinks they see. If you did not clearly see a miss then the score is given to the skier.That means if you think thay MAY have missed...or you think you MAY have seen a miss.....but you are not SURE then you must score in favor of the skier. As for much of the thread which wanders into less than ethical judging......for lots of "reasons" stated above, I for one am disturbed by what has been said and intimated. Judge based on what you see and the "correct" interpretation of the rules, for everyone, every time. If you do that you are with-in the rules............then it doesn't matter if you are wrong or right........you are "correctly judging". If you can't do that then you probably shouldn't judge. John Miller

Loved, loved, loved it......except it is crushing my big toe nail to the point of having a bruse under the nail after only 7 passes. I nearly ran 38 for only the 3rd time this year.......early onto 5 and overturned/loaded and popped the handle (lff)....... very happy to ski that well on a new set-up. They sent me a medium (left foot is probably 10 1/4 D) and it fits perfectly until I start loading. My foot must be moving forward slightly which is disconserning. I am torn. I believe I could modify it to fix the big toe problem. I could simply remove a small portion of the base pad rubber (about the size of a quarter) under the big toe. The base pad rubber is about 3/8" thick or so. I would also use a cord in the very bottom pair of lace rings to tighten over the top of the lower foot...... but that is how I broke my toe in a modified RS-1 when I center punched 4 ball @ 35 ( ski tip just stopped as it re entered the water). Of course if I modify it and it doesn't work ....then I basically ruined it's second hand resale value.......... John

UPS confirmed delivery of a new T-Factor for me......woo hoo.......off to the lake for it's first set. I'll let you know of my impressions. John

Help, I just started working with a kid (19 yr old) who is on a 66" Sixam SS (I'm guessing here, I didn't note the size and the gal at O'brian said this was the smallest they made....which I found hard to believe...but whatever) (green bottom/black top I believe). He's pretty small.....maybe 135 - 140# or so. He's a pretty talented skier....into 32 off @ 36 on a ski that is not doing him any favors. It is very "jittery". Off side is biting real hard. We took out .007 in length and .001 in depth. Wanted to move it enough so that he would definately feel the change.....for better or worse. The depth change was an incidental as I gave up after about 10 attempts (the fin box does not have set screws....a pain in the butt that I'm not used too). Bindings are back one hole (Stratas, I think...again, didn't really look at them). He was at 6.842/2.514/.741/8 deg (slot calipers) He is now at 6.832/2.513/.741/8 Couldn't find settings on line so I just now called Obrian. They gave me 6.840/2.520/.800 We need suggested set up #'s and experiance with this ski so we can make sure were in the right ball park as we try to "get this ski under him". Also his fin may be bent....he said his mom hit it with a car with-in a week of having it (more than a year ago). I told him to call O'brian and that I bet they send him a fin for next to nothing. Don't know that he will (you know kids)........so if any of you have one collecting dust and would be willing to donate it to a poor college kid....let me know. John Miller - Michigan

Ok Horton….you’ve taken me on a trip down Memory Lane………….. We moved to Lake Shannon (Fenton, Michigan) in the summer of 1973. I was 11 years old and got up on skis on my 3rd try behind the neighbors tri-hull outboard. Dad bought a Rinker Bilt with an 85 Johnson that next spring and we started to ski daily. Lake Shannon had many good/great skiers back then. So it was only a short time before dad & I were skiing the course, buying an inboard ( a Correct Craft – Skier) and going to tournaments. I do remember that the speed was 19 miles an hour when I 1st made the course on a flat wood ski (half of a combo set) at age 12. That next Christmas my folks gave me a Northland Shark and the rest of my youth summers were spent every evening with dad in line around Peterson's raft talking with 4-8 other boats while waiting for our turns in the course (6 passes or 2 falls). During the day we would ski with whoever’s mom would drive. Our family limit was 36 gallons of gas / week. Here are some names from Lake Shannon back then. Some of you will recognize them and it will take you back to the 'good old days'. ... sorry for misspelling the names. Of course, Jerry Hosner (many time national slalom and trick champion) with the renowned, and recently passed, Lawry (sp) Brown driving. Bobby Scoughten (sp) - great slalom & trick skier back in the 70s...... and still skiing today I believe. Jeff Peterson - probably the best slalom skier on the lake at that time. Running 32 and into 35 back when the Lapoints held the record of 3 @ 38 for years. He was a huge physical specimen of young man. Probably 6'3' or 6'4", 220#, and the spray he would put up was absolutely towering and amazing to me as a 12 &13 year-old. His brother Scott Peterson, my age and one of my ski buds. Scott Anable (the animal). An absolutely amazing jumper back then. Harold Cole- another ski buddy who developed into one of the best professional show skiers in the world in the early 80s. Inventing many tricks off the jump with his "aerials" which were a shorter, wide, goofy pair of jump skis. Kind of trick skis with a jump fin on them. Harold's sister Cris Cole, a great show skier in her own right……. We “liked” each other a lot!! …."and that’s all I have to say about that". The Doc Schroeder family. The Edwards family. The Giovaninni family. Carl Boyer - My best friend and ski bud back then. Many, many others. It was a water skier’s paradise. What a community….we had a blast! John Miller - Michigan

I ran my 1st 38 (44 years old) in the 3rd round of the 2006 Michigan state championships on an 05 Monza. It was only my 2nd full year back skiing after a 20 year hiatus. I was so incredibly geeked that the boat crew took probably 2 minutes to settle me down for the task at hand..... and I picked up a full 2 @ 39. That was my magical year. Two and a half weeks later I went to the 2006 Nationals in Bakersfield (thank you Horton for hosting) and ran 4 @ 38 for 15th place on a MPD I bought from Andy 2 days before. Most thought it was crazy to ski on a new ski at nationals. And I would agree except that I ran 38 for only the 2nd time in my life when demoing the ski. So to me, the ski felt so good, why not, I had nothing to lose and everything to gain…..I just might podium if I could run it again in the Nationals. I have only run 38 in a tournament one time since and only have a total of maybe 12-15 run in my life, and none in the last 2 years...... that is until 3 weeks ago. And this is why I love this sport. With the introduction of Zero Off I have had to evolve skiing from a scrambling, over-turn, hook-up and hang on style, to the proper maintenance of as much speed as possible at the end of the turn concluding in the right place. So with a gazillion 32’s, 35’s and a lot of 36 ½’s working on handle control, proper transition (edge change) and patience in the turn (working to stay open at the end of the turn so as to not over turn)……………..I absolutely stroked a 38 three weeks ago. It was a different high this time. It was so easy that I didn’t believe they shortened the rope!!! I got in the boat to see it myself and ended the set right there. And I have had a brand new sense of confidence since. Then again last night at Jepawhit, with Jack Daughrty driving, I did it again. Not quite as clean, but certainly solid in any case. Tweeking my ski enough to make it stop doing unpredictable things and perform well has been a key as well. I give BOS all the credit for educating me in becoming a “tweeker as needed”. I am hoping that the light switch is finally clicking on in this 49 yr old ski head. Maybe next year I can change my BOS handle to “38 in the bag”. John Miller - Michigan

Jim, I'm interested. Would like to see a picture to help determine if it's close enough to mine to swap parts. e-mail mhunter58ATsbcglobalDOTnet. .......or give me a call - cell - Eight one zero - seven three five - nine zero five zero. Thanks, John

I am guessing model year 2004 or 5......with the blue wraps, rear lace cinch and ratchet strap over the toe. Will take parts only as well. Thanks, JIII John Miller - Michigan

No dis to Scott....But IMO 10 thou in depth is too big an adjustment.. take out 3-4 thou and try that. You may loose some off side turn, and width on both sides may or maynot improve. If you feel narrow....and are not breaking at the waist in the lean.....then move fin forward........5-10 thou. The dft requires larger adjustments to be noticed. You are on the right track. If the ski is not right under you, then "get it there"............easier said than done. Remember........TOO ALL>>>> THIS IS ROCKET SCIENCE. JIII

lp, Some guys got um and some don't. At your word....you do!     But....... And a big BUT........ The key is to figure out which way the box is wired..........AND RESPECT THAT!!!!! Works for the long and short run. Short'n the line Honey!.......... From the boat I think I hear 102...102....102....102..... JIII

lkb, Check for zebra mussels, not that you can do anything about them. The are small! They range from about 1/8" to 3/4". Zebra mussels anchor themselve to solid objects....like bouys, rocks, wood, etc. Not so much the bottom silt, sand or clay. The gotta have something solid to grab to. They are sharp as heck even with light, incidental contact. Fortunatly the cuts are not deep.....but will quickly fester with minor infection if not treated with an OTC antibiotic ointment. They have completely impacted the Great Lakes Ecosystem............ The next scurge......Flying Carp! Eventually thier populations seem to significantly decline as a season or two of clearer water results in less feed for them and I guess starvation. Boy, Mother Nature has been doing the same thing for......millions...or billions of years. JIII

I'll bet it's under the couch cushions at MY HOUSE. I'll check for you when I get home tonight :-).  You can just blame my daughter!!! LOL.

>>>>>>>>To Chris Carter<<<<<<<<< What type/kind/brand of "hard custom orthotic" are you using and where/how are they available. Do you "afix" it to the binding some how? Thanks, John Miller

This topic/conclusion to "load behind the boat", which implies "not loading wide" or "nearer the ball", has always defied logic for me. It seems to me that we "must" achieve a certain minimum speed (x) by the time we cross the boat path in order to have the momentum (stored energy) to carry us out to the next ball. Now the problem is.....how to obtain the speed. If one begins acceleration nearer the ball, one has more time and distance to create the required speed (x) and therefor the rate of acceleration (and load) is less. If one waits to load only behind the boat, then the rate of acceleration (load) must be higher in order to achieve speed (x). Now all of this is presumes that other variables don't interfer. Frankly, I have ridden in the boat to witness numerious 38/39 skiers turn on a tight line and hook-up wide, light and early. They seem to master the ability to turn sharp and conserve more of thier speed, yet not over turn. Bring on the arguments...I want to learn the error of my ways. JIII

Tried RS1 w/ RTP for nearly a season. Ultimately I went back to rubber because I felt my foot could/would shift within the binding/liner forward & back and caused inconsistancy in my skiing. Like adding tip and taking it away at who knows when throughout the course. As finicky as ski set-up can be, it raised havic with me. I never knew whether the next turn would be great or a disaster. I tried tightening the lower laces more.....and it worked....but ended up with an unsafe system....injuring my big toe during a release caused by hitting an offside bouy which "stopped" the front of the ski dead when it reentered the water. Still hurts nearly 2 yrs later!

A cost counterpoint. The bandwagon that has been jumped on here seems to be that competitive waterskiing is too costly and therefore reserved for the upper-middle-class as more of an elitist activity. The costs, as I calculate them, do not particularly support that argument. In fact I believe it is much less costly today then it was decades ago. The advent of dedicated ski sites across the country, has in my opinion, made the sport much more accessible to those with less income. Years ago the only real option you had was to own a boat and lakefront property on one of the few lakes which had a slalom course. Then it was also likely that there was a lot of other activity on the lakes during prime time (i.e. weekends and evenings). One needed to be very dedicated to get quality water time on a daily basis. You either got up before sun up or you pay big bucks to live on a private lake at which it was customary to limit other water activities in the area of the slalom course. Today, if one decides to make waterskiing their passion it is affordable!!! You are probably thinking what is this guy smoking? But let's look at the numbers. 1st you need to live generally in an area that has active ski clubs/sites. This cost no more than living anywhere else. 2nd you need to seek out club openings and pony up the annual dues which I see range from 1500 to 3500 year. This includes the site(used exclusively for waterskiing - and of mostly pristine conditions for 5 to 7 months), a boat, gas and ski buds who are your driver, coach and friends. 3rd you need to gear-up. For well under $1000 you can outfit yourself with a 2 or three-year old used top-end ski and everything else that takes. 4th you need entry fees for local tournaments at approximately $50 each. So let us add this up.......... Ski site and boat, etc. $2500/year Gear $1000.00 divided by 2 years of use until obsolescence equals $500 per year Tournament entry fees (6 tournys @ $50) plus travel and eating expenses (6 @ $25) equals $450 per year. Ball of Spray Membership.............Priceless!!!! http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif That equals in the range of $3500 per year......... that's under 300.00/month for a 12 month period. If one has the passion for something one can certainly arrange their life to afford the $300 a month it costs to pursue that passion. And certainly it can be done for less than that. The truth is, that because it is our passion, most of us on this forum choose to spend a lot more than that. But no one is making us do so. Now go buy or build a house on a private lake, on a boat, pay for the insurance and all of the costs that go along with ownership, and surely, the affordability for the "average Joe"is out the window. Time to go ski! John Miller - MichiganÂ

TW, Now thaaat's funny........don't care who you 'r'

I want to install 2 additional inserts in my 67" S1. Having never done this before, I am seeking advice as to the proper products and procedures. Thanks, JIII

DOES ANYONE HAVE CLINCHERS FOR SALE? SIZE - LARGE.  JIII

I will affirm that the Eagle will "nicely" stretch a bit to result in a perfect fit (for me) after a week or two of skiing. So buy it just a bit snug. Though, as the weather warms, I am beginning to worry that the early sets here in Michigan in a few week will be a bit uncomfortable (tight). The holiday pounds just aren't going away by themselves and the vest has probably relaxed a bit toward its origional size. ........ah...an idea......I'll send it to MS or AB for a few breakin sets. They seem to have MUCH MORE experience with the Crispy Cream phenomenon than I do. John M

Couldn't agree w/ Horton more..... Don't look at the boat in late preturn or turn.....it is way too far "inside" when skiing very short line. Might work well at 15 or 22 but not at 38. I also stuggle with "just" looking down coarse. For me there is too much "water" everywhere out there and so I lose the sense of where I'm at in the turn and things just seem to go blank rather than being hyper-aware of my possition and what I'm doing. What Iv'e been working on is to fix my eyes on the next set of boat gates during the turn then picking up the boat as it enters and crosses my vision line. The key for me is to make the vision shift from the buoy in the preturn to the gates early enough......especially at very short line. I have the habit of looking at the buoy way too long........kinda out of fear.....to ensure I'm not going to hit it.......again especially as the sightlines so drastically change from 35 off to 38 off. Shoot holes in this......as I need a new key to help solve this problem. John M - Michigan

John, Greg's #'s with Greg's calipers 6.852 tips, 2.505, .82. As for the other....I'll get back with you, John M

Dang disappearing paragraphs!

MS, Tried the 67" white RS-1 that night with your settings. Let me put it this way........It felt as if I was driving a formula 1 race car......except that instead of being in the cockpit, I was sitting on a tricycle built for a 5 year old which was mounted on top of the rear spoiler of the car!!!!! There just was not enough ski under me. I over corrected on everything I did. It was a rocket ship for sure......but would bite in the turn even when I was trying to stay neutral and countered, and wheelie if I pressed on the back.......can't take the front binding back any more cause stock already has me all the way back. I think for me......and my 185# naked weight.....the 68 would be a better match (not available to me at the moment).  That was Tuesday. Last night (Wednesday) I hopped on a 67" Elite. After 45 minutes tapping and measuring and more of the same again and again (Obrian...please pay of the rights to use a set screw fin box), the ski felt solid (29.5, 6.838, 2.5115, .7835) except a bit too much tip on the off side. Before hurting myself I decided to move the binding back an 1/8". The ski tamed down in the toe side turn....but I was really .......I mean "Really" surprised how much input I had to give the ski to come around mid turn. Solid feel all the way but not "on the rails" like the RS-1. This ski just basically went where ever I told it to go. Bottom line though....was that I couldn't ski up to my "normal" practice buoy count. I really think that given time and the correct adjustments, that I would.......or should I say ....will……as I will get some more time on it. The ski did not feel as effort saving to me as others alluded to. My bet is adjustment.....maybe a bit more DFT...........then maybe just a bit less depth if warranted.......but that will take another hour of fin adjusting;-(. So tonight I got the 67" S1 back....a ski I can actually ski well on. Two sets are planned, hopefully with some work @ 38 then it’s off to Regionals. MS, I assumed you'll be there........It would be great to chat for a few about all this.....hopefully we can look each other up.  John M

Thanks MS, John M