Bruce_Butterfield

@Hortonfirst WTF did you start 2 threads with basically the same question? there is no definitive answer and that’s the fundamental problem. The 6 buoy rule of thumb may apply as an average across the slalom population but is way off as the line gets short or longer. for example, if a skier can run 39@36 and snag 1@41, then drops to 34 he may get 2 or maybe 3 @41. That’s a 1 or 2 buoy increase. now take a skier that gets 3@22 off at 36 and drop to 34, he will likely run 28 and get a buoy or 2 @32off for a 10-11 buoy increase. these are examples but from my experience this is representative of what happens when changing speeds. if you/we want a level field for the few “competitive” tournaments, the speed absolutely needs to be the same

This topic was hashed to death a few years ago and should be somewhere in the archives. Short version is that its a really bad idea. ZBS is fine for skiers who want to shorten before max speed, but the 6 buoy delta between 36 to 34, or 34 to 32 is NOT accurate. So we have an apples to oranges playing field for competitive tournaments (Regionals and Nationals). You can make the argument that it allows skiers to utilize different strategy, but that would be similar to comparing a skier in Florida to a skier in Maine and picking the winner on how they ski. For a "real world" example, lets say a M4 skier can run 35 off at 36 and get 2 at 38. But at 34 he normally only gets 4 at 38, so he scores 4 more buoys skiing at 36 than 34. This would effectively force the top skiers at Nationals (M3 through M6 or so) to ski at 36 or be handicapped. Bad idea.

I found this to be the best value https://www.amazon.com/iGaging-Digital-Caliper-Coolant-Coolant-Cal/dp/B01N15S3H2/ref=sr_1_7?crid=2HZBQ2WXCWHVJ&keywords=igauge%2Bdigital%2Bcaliper&qid=1673281260&refinements=p_89%3AiGaging&rnid=2528832011&s=industrial&sprefix=igau%2Caps%2C362&sr=1-7&th=1 Roughly half the price of Mitutoyo. If you just want cheap dial calipers go to Harbor Freight. But you get what you pay for😀

Its been almost 5 years and @Horton still hasn't figured out his "conclusion". Hmmmm.

Years ago, I built my own version of the trick wraps with extra thick rubber for even more support. Then I duck taped the tops for MORE support and ensured I would not come out. I used that setup for several years before moving to hardshells. Disclamier: not releasing is my preference, every skier needs to make their own choice. Releasing is highly dependent on sizing and how tight the binding is. If its tight enough to give the support you want, it may not release easily. I would hesitate to use a tight trick wrap and RTP.

@Drago I agree. If I was king, he would have been tarred and feathered and probably a few other unique punishments. That said, I would prefer he be forgotten. JMO, plus an opportunity to poke AB.😁

@horton definitely need more emojis! @A_Bwhatshisnamethecheatingdentist needs to be relagated to the ash heap of forgotten memories. Go have another burbon or 3 before posting anything else!

Requiring ballast for side to side balance is no different than any other ski boat. This boat looks small and no frills. I really like the "out of the box" concepts going into this. Will wait and see what the finished product is like.

We use the cheap sim cards from Redpocket mobile in the base phone and rovers. Something like $10/month for each one.

@Horton I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. We "shouldn't" have issues, but we do. Cell tower is visible from lake and about 1/2 mile away with strong signal. And we have our own base station. Still have intermittent issues every time out.

@Horton yes we have our own base station.

It all depends on the context and its intended use: For beginning and intermediate drivers it can be an extremely useful training aidFor experienced drivers, it won't tell them anything they don't already know apart from finding dead center when getting into an unfamiliar boat. i.e. any decent driver will already know if he's off a little and surepath will only confirm that.The technology / user friendliness isn't there yet. At my lake, it frequently gets "lost" and goes to "Float" or "GPS" instead of "Fixed" where it needs to be. This appears to be random and we haven't been able to isolate any specific cause.For L/R events it can replace end course video and maybe be a little easier on the TC, but what happens if it craps out? Still need end course video as a backup.My biggest concern is that up and coming tournament drivers will "drive to the numbers" instead of "driving with the skier" and the pull will not be as good, so the art of being an exceptional driver will get lost. What I mean is that for 2 drivers with nearly identical surepath numbers or end course video, the "feel" of the pull can be dramatically different. The very best drivers spend hours driving shortline skiers and soliciting feedback from the skiers to improve their driving. I worry now that too many drivers will take the mindset that "my numbers were good, so the pull must be good". This is similar to the mindset for speed control that "hey, the time was good, so the pull must be good" and we all know that is far from true.

@Horton not half empty and good for Miss America. Just putting a little reality into some of the posters who were going Ga-Ga and thinking Miss America was a waterskiing superstar.

@6balls exactly. The typical ski team recruit "oh, you got up on skis once? Great we need another girl for the jump team". Most on this board don't realize that skiers like that are the norm for many collegiate teams and not the exception. Everyone having fun and enjoying skiing the way it should be.

Good for Miss Wisconsin / Miss America, but don't get too excited about the helluva athlete part. Collegiate rankings shows a whopping 1.5 buoy slalom PB out of 3 tournaments, with 0 in 2 of them, 320 points for trick, and a max jump distance of 0 for 2 jump tournaments. Probably best that she chose the violin for talent portion.

IMO, one of the biggest problems is focusing too much on a single sport. Far too many parents have the mindset that they want their kid(s) to be the very best at that particular sport, frequently have delusions of getting a college scholarship, and push their kids way too hard. The kid burns out in short order and wants nothing to do with that sport anymore. The kids mainly want to have fun, play and hang out with their friends. The best athletes are very good in at least 2 sports and not bad at several others. The variety is critical for both mental breaks and physical "cross training". But trying to convince today's parents of that is an uphill battle.

Not sure of the link but Gordon rathbun’s place is probably the best ski school/ vacation option in Mexico. I believe it’s ski paradiseThere is also a place in costa Rico that used to be run by Jim kilsdonk

@DW yikes! I had almost forgotten about Coyote Brothers. But then again, I have forgotten a lot of stuff.I did try a Carbon fin and it sucked to ski on, but found a very useful repurpose./forum#/discussion/14688/carbon-fins-are-awesome

Good idea. My “juniors” are not junior anymore but I’ll be glad to share what I’ve learned over the process

I was worried my comment would result in this thread going totally off the rails. And the Ballers exceeded expectations once again?‍♂️

@Kimbymon it sure is nice to have a mastercraft so you don’t have to worry about scratching it up

The Redline is one of the top skis of the era, the EX, not so much.At any rate, pretty much any of the modern skis will be leaps and bounds above the old Kidder's and World Team skis. Any Radar suitable for your size would be great. Senate should be at the top of your list. D3 also has excellent skis - any 68" will be good. Seriously, you can throw a dart on SIA for a Radar or D3 and you will be amazed at how much better is than the old Kidder or Obrien.

I was initially afraid to open this thread with that title started by @"liquid d" . I was fully expecting a "top 10 review" of Orlando's best Gentlemen's Clubs.

@Horton , first, my wife knows I would never think about buying a Prostar and I certainly don’t lay awake at night thinking slalom geek stuff – at least not anymore. I think the ideas in your video are generally correct, but will do next to nothing to improve the majority of slalom skiers’ performances. Maybe improve basic understanding a little, but how does that come into play on the water? From my perspective, “path of the handle” is more of a rabbit hole than anything else. What we are really looking to understand is “path of the skier”. More importantly, both you and Joel commented about maintaining “connection”. IMO, focusing on maintaining connection will result in far greater improvement than thinking about the path of the handle. If you maintain connection, the path of the handle, and skier, will take care of itself. HOW to achieve the connection is the key to getting a better path. For clarification, the most obvious indication of “connection” is how close the handle is to the hips/body through the wakes all the way to the beginning of the reach. The connection is also what allows the skier to keep tension on the rope between the wake and buoy. You also correctly mentioned that something is going to give and the handle will get pulled off your hips on the edge change. This is perhaps the most important thing to understand with today’s boats. With the 240Hp, 3 blade prop boats of yesteryear, you didn’t have to be wicked strong to maintain connection. With ZO and 400+Hp even if a skier is wicked strong, they will loose either connection or body position in some form. Maintaining connection is still the single most important key to shortline slalom. One key nugget I picked up from Joel’s video was where he said to “loosen the tension on your legs” on the edge change. So while relaxing the legs will result in a loss of leverage, if something is going to give, sacrificing a little leverage in order to keep the handle close is a very worthwhile tradeoff. Pulling too long is a common problem that you highlighted. While it may be true that the ultra short line guys need to pull long if they don’t start generating speed until closer to the wakes, the vast majority of skiers feel the need to pull long because they don’t have adequate connection to generate the speed/swing to get wide. This is common for 22 through 35 off range where the skier hasn’t learned to keep the handle close. So instead of “don’t pull so long”, the better coaching is “get and hold the handle closer”. Bottom line is that if a skier has connection, which allows him to generate speed, it doesn’t matter if the edge change is at the first wake or 15 feet past the second wake. It still boils down to Butterfield's first law of slalom from circa 2008: "There is only one significant difference between the high end skiers and everyone else - how close the handle is to the body on the edge change."

For the safety issues, yep the lithium battery fires after being submerged are a huge issue. But for anyone who has seen close up what a 5 gallon can of gas does when lit off is not an experience you are likely to forget. Understanding the potential risks and mitigating as much as practical goes a long way for any technology. But you can never mitigate human stupidity.