Than_Bogan

Darn -- I was hoping everyone would hate the 200. On my lake we have an extremely narrow tunnel to get to the area where skiing is allowed, and there is no chance the 200 is going through. I fear I'm on my last Nautique (or possibly my last boat period -- may have to keep this one going no matter what!) Hm, just realized nobody cares. Oh well -- just wanted to vent!!

I would never make fun of anyone's spelling! (go-go-gadget edit-button!)

Super-interesting article. One of the many thing I've never grasped is why certain adjustments are more relevant to one side or the other. While obviously (as you state) your article is more of a hypothesis than a fact, it does make a lot of sense, and hopefully can inform future testing and new hypotheses. GREAT contribution to the community. Thanks. I wonder how I missed this for 6 years...

That makes a lot of sense, Drago. I think I may have corrected one "flaw" by moving DFT to factory. From here, if I still have some trouble at the off-side finish, I'll plan to reduce length a bit. Oddly, I've usually gone with non-trivially LESS length than the factory setting on my Goodes, but when I tried the factory length it felt awful, and longer felt better. Still, I have some room to go back toward the factory length, which might prove to be the ideal settings for me. Each time I do this I get a *little* more clue -- much of it from this message board!

Thanks to all! I'm learning and I found a lot of information here and elsewhere. I've made *some* fin adjustments before, so I sorta know the drill, but I'm *far* from an expert on it. In retrospect, I didn't give you guys all the information. As I was reading through various material, I realized that some of my other symptoms, notably including those on the on-side, were relevant in determining exactly what adjustment could help my overall results. Here's the two pieces of critical information that I left out (although I didn't realize they were critical!): 1) My DFT was 0.72", which is about 1/100 forward of factory. (I don't have a slot caliper yet, so this measurement is barely repeatable to a 1/100" -- reporting 1/1000ths would be completely meaningless.) 2) I've been riding a bit toward the tail on the on-side -- just a few days a good skier in NH that I had a chance to ski with advised me that I should make an effort to get more ski in the water on the on-side. I was able to "fix" THAT just by doing it consciously, so it didn't occur to me that it was relevant to figuring out my ski's adjustment. As I read material here, in Goode's docs, and in Jager's docs, it began to make sense that the symptoms on both sides were actually tied together, and the only adjustment that sounded like it would take BOTH toward a better direction was reducing DFT. Btw, I rechecked by boots and they are exactly at factory. Horton, why do you say Jager's info is wrong? It seemed to make sense to me, except that I was a little put off by the tone of certainty -- I think anybody who has actually done this knows it simply isn't an exact science. But you have to start with a general theory and THEN deal with exceptions; it is of no value to assume that *everything* is an exception. Anyhow, his discussion about symmetry as it relates to DFT seemed to ring true for me. I've been coming into 1/3/5 wide, but having trouble getting out of there. I've been coming into 2/4/6 narrow (even on the rare occasion I get out of 1/3/5 well). For this scenario he recommends decreasing DFT, which appears (after only one easy set) to have significantly improved my feeling of symmetry. I'm not saying I'm done, but a few passes this morning felt MUCH better -- until I realized that my velcro had started to peel off and I needed to stop skiing before going flying!! @ Drago: Yes, was typically tight at that point. Slack, if any, was usually on the other (on) side.

Btw, here's an interesting link: http://www.jagersport.com/FMTECH_0204.pdf From reading this, it seems like my first action would be to move the fin back. (?)

Hm, I never really considered my boot placement -- it came mounted up from the factory. But considering how bad the factory fin settings felt, I suppose it's possible the binding positions IS off. Argh -- I don't need more variables! Guess I better remeasure that before I go much further. That said, I wouldn't *think* that moving them back would be workable, because I'm already have a little trouble with rocking back on my on-side, which I'd have to think would be worsened by moving the boots back? Of course, sometimes the intuitive guess at what an adjustment will do is completely wrong!

Thanks guys! Great input to consider in my search. I don't think I can really consider 9 degrees, unless you are claiming the 9900SL is somehow different from previous Goodes. I've tried 8 on several previous Goodes and didn't like it at all. Very "sticky" feel in the turns. I don't know anybody else who runs as little wing on a Goode as I do -- something weird about my skiing style I guess. But I've been doing it for many years -- I actually used to run 6 degrees way back, but found I preferred 7 on a Goode. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try 8 again, but I'd be really surprised if that feels better. Been surprised before...

I've tried some technique adjustments first, and they only seem to reduce the problem, not eliminate it, so I'm looking to do some fin adjustments next. But I've never really had a problem exactly like this, so I'm not quite sure where to go. All suggestions appreciated. When I come to the finish of my off-side turn, especially at -35 and -38 (55kph), the ski seems to breifly lose edge and -- for lack of a better word -- become squirelly. Sometimes it "squirrels" so much that it actually goes onto the opposite edge before I can regain control and begin my pull. Needless to say, this leaves me late into the next ball! As I progress through the lines, this issue becomes progressively worse. I'm on a 9900SL, and I like an awful lot of what it does. But I need to fix this particular issue. I'm using the 7 degree setting that I have used on every ski I've owned for years. Also of note: I'm currently both deeper and longer than factory. I tried out the factory settings (with my standard 7 degree) last fall and I was shocked at how bad it felt. My notes say "nearly unskiable." Of course, it's always possible I measured wrong. Other things that probably don't matter, but just in case: The last ski I had REALLY dialed in was a 9600, but it had some structural issues and eventually became very soft. I've also had some injuries since then, but seem close to 100% now. My personal best is 4.5 @ -38 (practice 1 @ -39), but it's been a few years since I went deep at -38. I *think* I'm physically ready to do that now, but I need to tune up both my technique and (I think!) my ski. All advice appreciated!! Also, I'd be interested in any links to useful info.

Internet search turned 'em up here: http://www.4wake.com/istar.asp?a=3&dept=4WACC&class=GLOVES THANKS FOR THE HELP FOLKS! I'll try these out.

Well, that's sounds great that Talons or similar are being made again, but I can't find them here: http://www.h2oproshop.com/waterski-gloves.html Am I blind or is that the wrong link?

Thanks for the link. The "clincher" style doesn't really work for me, though. That dowel messes with me.

I was using HO Talons (with the lockdown metal triangle) for many years, but it seems these have been discontinued. Any recommendations for durable gloves with a good grip and as little bunching as possible? I was VERY disappointed with a set of 4-3-6 gloves I got. Turned out the palm wasn't even kevlar. The grip was poor and they didn't even last 1 month before developing a whole in the palm. Obviously there must be something better out there! Doubt it matters, but as a reference point my tournament PB is 4 @ 55/-38.

Great review! Thanks for sharing.

What's the best way to sell a ski? I've actually never had one survive to the point of selling it! (If anybody wants a broken 9100 or a severely delaminating 9600 for decoration or something, let me know!) But I have decided the 68" Fischer Yellow is not for me (mostly too big) and would like to sell it. Recommendations on how to make this happen?

Yep. I think we all agree on the size. I suppose it's worth asking if anybody knows of a 66 floating around somewhere?? But more importantly, anybody know anybody interested in a 68?

Thanks for the info.

Although I like many of the characteristics of this ski, especially its superior craftsmanship, it's simply too big for me.* It's in good condition, with only one cosmetic blem on the bottom and some marks on the top under the boots. Fin has a tiny nick it, so you may want to use your own fin and/or finbox. $1,000 (including shipping) or best offer. (Don't be afraid to make a low-ball offer. I'm not clear on what this is worth and would rather sell it than just have it sit in my basement! If I don't want to sell to you at the price you offer, I'll simply say "no thanks.")  *I still haven't figured out why Fischer's size chart recommends a much longer ski than Goode's. The skis seem to have very similar width and shape, and I think 68" for a 170 lbs guy, even at 34 mph, is far too long. I argued with Jodi about the recommendation but was assured it was my size. But it skis just like any other 68" would for me -- too difficult to turn and too hard to hold onto behind the boat.

Thanks again, folks. The Raley Settings seem to have completely eliminated my on-side problem, and in my first set on them I ran -35 for the first time this year. (Not that big a deal; I've run it many times, but still a good sign.) I don't really like playing around with this stuff too much, so I'll probably do a bunch of sets at this setting before I even consider further tuning. And hopefully I'll just leave them here and get back to trying to ski better!

As a check that I'm not measuring in a goofy way: .800 DFT is almost all the way to the front of the fin box. Does that seem about right?

Thanks, all. I may have compounded a few factors to cause my on-side issues: Compared to the Raley settings I am currently deeper, shorter, and closer to tail! Possibly all 3 of those are bad for on-side finish! I think I'll try jumping to those settings and then perhaps do some minor tuning from there. Then I'll come back when I get confused again...

Interesting! My first set on the ski was with the bindings centered on the holes, but then I actually measured it up and the factory recomended setting turns out to be one back from there. So currently I am one hole back, and (if I've measured correctly!) at the factory boot placement. I don't have RS-1's, although I'm pretty interested in trying those out at some point. I could certainly try moving the binding forward one hole, back to being centered on the holes. EDIT: I didn't answer your question. I don't have all the latest fin measurements in front of me; those are at home. Pretty sure I started at factory (except accidentally the boot placement), and I found those setting tracked "too well" for me -- i.e. hard to turn the ski on both sides.

Thanks! Naturally I have more questions. Do I want to maintain depth? If I literally just raised the back of the fin, then I'd lose depth, and therefore (I think!) I'd also lose some of the tracking and ease of getting wide? But if I maintain depth AND increase tip, then surely I've increased the surface area of the fin, which seems to be the opposite of what you're suggesting. So I *think* what I'm understanding from your post is that I want to end up with more length but less depth? Can I count on the increased length to help with tracking/width? Somewhat aside: In a previous adjustment (last year, before I hurt my back), I took out some tip relative to factory, so it's easy to believe I went too far. I'm just trying to understand how depth interacts with this to make sure I'm trying something that has a reasonable chance to work! Sorry if my questions make no sense. I'm a fin adjustment n00b. :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie

I so rarely do fin adjustments that I always find myself a little confused dialing in a new ski. I'm just getting going on my Fischer #01 Yellow, and I think I've got the fin "pretty close" now. I love my off-side turns, and the ski seems strong and predictable between the wakes; not too much trouble getting wide. One problem remains, which is that I am fairly regularly getting a bit of a "stall" on my on-side (heal-side) turn. The feeling is that, at the apex when I expect the ski to begin to carve into the turn, it instead briefly runs straight. This doesn't happen every time -- it's especially pronounced if I'm running a little narrow. But naturally I want to do what I can to the ski to compensate for my bad technique! :) In case it matters, I am a 34 mph skier, and the lines where I'm noticing this the most are -32 and -35. (I haven't attempted -38 yet this season -- it's still sorta early season here in New England, and I'm coming off a back injury last year so taking it slow.) Any advice appreciated!!

Thanks! You have a favorite among those, TS?