Than_Bogan

Well I certainly agree with Mike Tyson on that!!

Maybe not totally convinced by @Horton's arguments, but does help me understand where you're coming from.

I totally disagree with @Horton on a top-level point:  I think this forum is exactly the right place to critique this film.  I realize the irony in telling the creator of a forum what the forum should be for, but I can't imagine a better place to gather some reactions from one of the likeliest audiences.

I loved the very beginning.  I thought anybody serious about anything could relate, and would be drawn in to learn more about waterskiing.  I was getting excited about sending this to all of my track athletes who always ask about what competitive waterskiing is.

But after the intro, it wasn't the film I was hoping for.   It quickly turned to more of a documentary about TWBC.  Mildly interesting to me as a TWBC fan, but not something that helps make this unknown sport become less unknown.  If I do end up sending a link to this film to non-water-skiers, it will be with a message of "watch the first 5 minutes."

Wow it's 2023!  My kids have all graduated high school.

But I haven't!  A few years after I started this thread, in late 2017, I began a new adventure as a high school track coach.  This is the true passion of my life right now, and a reason I am less involved with waterskiing than I once was.

Sure, there are high schools in every town in the country, but part of the addiction of coaching is working with people all the way from "what is the high jump?" to competing in the All State Championship.  And that means there is always a group that I "owe" three more years.  Just yesterday I was working with a freshman of each gender who have a real shot to someday break our school records in the PV -- [brag alert!] both of which were set in the last two seasons by my athletes!

So I think I'm far less likely to move now.

That said, if anybody ever gets a ski site going in New Mexico, DO let me know! 🙂

Hah!  Been away from BoS for a bit, but fun to see this.

I think all three of us (Rob, Marcus, I) are thinking the same on this.  Men start at -35, women at -32 is appreciably quicker without ruining the skier's experience.  Starting even shorter would harm performance.

Comments about the format of high jump & pole vault (mentioned by Marcus):

- I've been told that the very first slalom tournaments used that format: Everyone completes the first pass, then everyone completes the second pass, then everyone completes the third pass, etc.  My impression is it was brutally slow.

- Nobody watches the HJ or PV at any level.  Maybe parents...

- One of the big problems with watching these events is that it's ALL "warm up heights" for 90% of the event.  It's not until the very end that the best folks are challenging themselves.

Wow that's an amazing film.

So sad that the circumstance exist where it can be made, but nevertheless a triumph of a short film.

And also what @BKistler said!!!

Isn't the unusual part the exact tie?  Or does that happen in tricks more than I realize?

@Horton I understand why you'd prefer that, but discussing math and physics in a crowded room is very, very painful.  I'm not up for it.  I simply wanted to make people aware that there is a different view, and perhaps later Marcus or I will convince the other.

I strongly disagree with Marcus on this point.  At some point, I'll communicate with him privately and see if he is persuaded by any of arguments.

Wow very nice style.  Look forward to seeing more.

@MDB1056I also made it exactly 11 seconds.

Not to totally hijack the thread, but: There are indeed real concerns with AI technology.  But the saving grace is that we all see it.  Many movies have explored various downfalls, whether the "overthrow" scenario like Terminator or Matrix, or the "do nothing" future of Wall-E.

As long as people are a little scared, then we'll probably be OK.

I majored in AI at MIT.  I kinda always knew I'd live long enough to see it bring the end...

Strictly as phrased, I'd say yes: More lean angle, all other things equal, will bring more speed.

However, we don't just want more speed, we want the most speed we can build.  And that means that the angle of the ski to the course and the angle of the skier relative to the ski are both very important.  With a ski angle of 90 degrees, you could lean as hard as you want and would just create more load.  And if you leaned way over with the ski pointing straight (i.e. 0 degrees), then you'd just fall to the side.

The optimum speed comes from a ski angle somewhere around 45 degrees to the direction of tension and the skier leaning relative to the ski rather than just away from the boat.  To most of us mortals, this will feel like leaning way forward, which is scary because it's easy to confuse that feeling with BENDING forward (i.e. at the waist) which is OTF city.

Decades ago now, but I used to have one regularly that I was by myself and somehow driving the boat while skiing the course.  There were a few variations on how I was doing this, but of course none made an ounce of sense.  I kinda feel like my brain was trying to invent something ... and failed.

A surprisingly similar one was trying to drive two cars using just the one steering wheel in the car I was actually in.  These were very realistic and detailed, and I eventually "learned" to bang one of the cars into guard rails in order to get them in sync for things like exiting the highway.

In neither the driving&skiing nor the driving&driving scenario did I ever have any fear or actually try to STOP.  *shrug*

@HortonIt was at a much earlier stage that I found it extremely useful.  Getting the feel of how low I could be and really let my mass hang and turn into line tension was quite enlightening for someone naturally tentative like me.

I used it weekly for a few winters, and found it very beneficial, but I stopped using it once I had a clue and needed to focus on subtler elements.

How funny.  I am definitely not a fan of turn islands as a skier.  I didn't come here to go on an amusement park ride.  Just take me into the slalom course.

They are so sketchy at -28 -- I can't even imagine how disorienting it would be at -15 where the rope travels over land!

Bench press is almost completely useless for slalom, and the other "traditional" exercises mentioned are handy but not that strongly correlated either.

Core strength is far more valuable.  Your mass and skeleton can provide tons of leverage if you have the core strength to remain in that position.  Achieving the minimally required arm and leg strength for that load is much easier that the minimally required core strength to hold that alignment.

And that "staying with the handle after second wake" move that we all talk about is almost pure core strength.

Train like a gymnast.  Or heck BE a gymnast.  Seems to work for the G.O.A.T.

Line length is critical.  A surprisingly reasonable estimate is that 34/-35 and 36/-32 are the same difficulty, but each line length shorter reduces the advantage of 34 by one buoy.  And each line length longer increases the advantage of 34 by 1 buoy.

It's just a Rule of Thumb and not any kind of stastical analysis, but for such a simple rule I think it matches people's experience pretty well.

I see how it is.  Erase my 8k points and THEN start giving stuff to high point getters...

Probably not quite what you meant, but:  I spent some time on a proto Denali 53.  It was never produced, but it was sweeet.  For me, it was better than the c65.  Of course, the c75 left both in the dust!

Wow if she's as tall as the gala photo makes her look AND a good trick skier, she must be one helluvan athlete!

@jjackkrash and the several who hit Like: The question isn't asking "why are electric boats overall superior to gas boats?" It's just looking for one aspect that is an advantage.Or do I misunderstand your objection?

One of the most important and true things @Bruce_Butterfield has posted -- and that is a very high bar!

I just want to scream that at people sometimes. But I will say SOME are starting to get the message. When I tell parents that joining track for a season or two each year will make their kid better at their "main" sport than just grinding away at Club Whatever, some actually agree!

Surprisingly, I am finding that often the kids themselves are more hesitant -- at least initially. Maybe they don't want to appear less comitted to their friends in the sport?? Not sure of the whys, but I definitely get more people trying my jumping events when I talk with the parents!

Huh I thought "everyone" agreed that sleeve labels are totally amateurish. Pretty surprised to see serious slalom skiers requesting them.Looks like another case of me knowing a small group and assuming they represented all others!

Anyhow, I'll just order mine without!

Apparently, there are a lot of famous people that I've never heard of.