jjackkrash

At the risk of overstepping, I have been told by several Radar insiders that if your max speed is 32 and you are not super short line you want a Senate; but the Vapor is the better ski for 34 and 36 in most cases.  But, you can still ski on a Vapor at slower speeds if it's sized right.  So if you start at 30 and progress into 34 or 36 nothing wrong with going Vapor. 

That said, my buddy skis exclusively at 34  and no slower and runs deep into -35 and is looking hard a -38 and you could not pry his Senate Pro out of his cold dead hands.  So, really, I think the answer is get them sized right for your application and give them both a try.  I personally think I'd be on a Senate if they made a 68.  But I am also going to try the 67 that I have coming just to see for myself.    

We may need to travel with jumpers.  We have the three event bags.  Last time I flew with jumpers they were a lot shorter and I used I large PVC pipe and screwed caps on the end for a travel case.   But I suspect with security that strategy would be frowned upon now.  

Any thoughts on the best way to fly with jumpers?  

Admitting you are an addict may be a good first step to recovery, but its sucks as a negotiating strategy.  🙂  

By the way, I have one 66" and one 68" 22/23 generation Vapor Pro Build for sale.   Both one-season skis in great cosmetic and structural shape.   Send me a PM if interested.  

I just ordered a '24 Vapor 68" and found a reasonably priced used '22 67" Senate Pro to try as well.  I suspect I'll be sticking with the Vapor but I want to see for myself.  I was under 200 today and plan on mostly starving until I hit 190 lbs.  I'm stoked for this  season though.  

@escmanaze, in your use case, I would posit that your Vapor debate is between the 68 and 69.5, not the 67.  

17 minutes ago, Horton said:

@jjackkrash how old is your boy? are you looking for pure coaching or coaching and adult supervision?

16.  And I am going with.   Pure coaching.  

I was hoping to take my boy to liquid zone for some TW coaching over spring break because West Coat Best Coast and TW but it looks like he's booked.  I am looking for Plan B.  Any suggestions for a 3-event school?  Looking at Bennetts or Picos maybe but open to other suggestions for mid april.  

Shorter skis are fun to crank and yoke but fun to crank and yoke isn't what you should be looking for in a ski, IMO.  

2 hours ago, lefty said:

Indeed a 65” senate is what I meant. 

You are right at the top of the size chart for 65.  I'd consider and at least try the 67.

The 67" Senate is .1" wider than a 68" Vapor and has very similar surface area.  It's going to put more ski under your foot than a same size Vapor if that's what you are looking for.  I am on a 68" Vapor right now and am going to give a 67" Senate a try in a few weeks to see if I like it coming off back surgery and maybe skiing at some slower speeds but shorter line lengths in training.  
 

I do not believe there is a 66" Senate in the probuild trim.  65, 67, 69.  Specs on the 67:

Specs on 67" Vapor:

Its a Glastron GT 150.  

https://www.theameryfreepress.com/6-30-21-glastron-one-web-jpg/image_69331f68-df5a-11eb-9a37-532b30f2a7cb.html

21 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

Go 67.  I'm 250 on a 69 and it's plenty of ski.  I ski with a guy who's about your size on a 67 and he loves it.

I am trying to head to sub 190 this year, but damn it's hard for me to stay that light.  I was 223 on Jan 1 and now I'm just cracking sub 200 (which is lighter than usual for this time of year).  A 67 would sure give me some incentive though.

68" DV8s reduced to $500 or best offer.  

Make me a fair offer on the Radars.

Get em' while they're hot.  

Do these weight recommendations make sense in light of the surface area of the skis?

2024 Vapor Pro:

68"376.54 SQ”7.061”32-36 MPH / 52-58 KPHCOURSE180-220 lbs / 82-100 kg

69.5"393.33 SQ”7.217”32-36 MPH / 52-58 KPHCOURSE200+ lbs / 90+ kg

***

Senate Pro:

67"379.42 SQ"7.16”34 MPHCOURSE160 – 200 lbs / 73 – 91 kg

69"402.41 SQ"7.37"34 MPHCOURSE 180 – 220 lbs / 82 – 100 kg

I'd like to try a Senate but I am right at 200 usually don't like being on that end of the weight range but the 69 seems pretty damn big compared to my 68" vapor.

They make thinner neoprene dive socks that will definitely take the bite out of the air and water.  They slide on and off easily (like socks) and I can get my foot into an RTP.   I would think they would slide into boots easily with a little soap.  

1 hour ago, Dano said:

 In my opinion the dispute between PP and ZO hampered competition and was overall bad for the sport.  

Not much that can be done about it.  ZO had a patent that applied to all econtrol boats and basically won a patent lawsuit.  So until the patent expires there's not much to be done about the lack of competition absent some other, unknown and untested innovation that does not risk another ZO patent violation.  IIRC a patent lasts 20 years so maybe we are coming up on its expiration that might break the competition logjam.  

3-event Skiing is aristocratic.  It's not for the masses.  It not like soccer or even snowboarding.  Think more along the lines of Polo and Dressage. 

It's both expensive and tough to get to the top of Everest as well, but that's part of the charm.  

You can, in fact, find ways to ski on a budget if you really want to.  You just have to be hooked, creative and committed.  But, again, you need to be a lunatic who really appreciates the sport or its not going to happen.

Skiing is what it is.  The best sport on the planet for a relatively few families who get it.  And that's ok with me.  

9 minutes ago, jhughes said:

On a public lake you need the following for course skiing.

1. No other boats moving, for several hours, on the entire lake

2. Favorable winds/weather

 

Or lillypads!  But ya.  

Jet boats are perfect if you don't really want the boat to track in straight lines, deliver efficient power to propel the boat through the water, or need any semblance of low-speed control when docking or picking up fallen water sports participants.    

Seriously, the biggest benefit is no prop to hurt someone or get bent and shallow water capability, but  there are some big tradeoffs.  

Holy crap.  Not that far off!

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Put the minimum equipment necessary to gain approval and make all the fluff separate options.

These boats don't sell; manufacturers don't want to make them; and the ski boats that currently sell and are the most profitable are still at risk of being discontinued because they are less profitable than the wake boats. 

Maybe some of you guys with the bare-bones strippy ski boat fantasy business model can start a company and give it a go and prove me wrong.  I'll root you all on from the sidelines (I just won't invest any of my money in the business plan).  

I free ski set Yesterday just for conditioning to make the start of our season (March 10) less painful.  It made me very happy to be on the water.  

21 minutes ago, Zman said:

Maybe my experience is a localized one. But, in my limited tournaments over my 16 years of doing them {in my last year of M7) - if not for Boomers, I do not think any of those tournaments would have even happened.

Tournament TCs? Boomer. Most Judages? Boomers. Safety? Mostly Boomers. It goes on.  The bigger exception, maybe Boat Drivers, but still mostly Boomers.

Does this say something for where we are heading?

The community has to get the kids taking tournament jobs and learning judging skills, etc.  We are putting an emphasis on it so the kids can run college tournaments when they leave the house.  I suspect my boy is going into engineering so he should be able the learn the technical side of the sport.  But it's always been and going to be a few people doing the work so others can enjoy the fun side of things.