Razorskier1

Early season and I've been in the course once, but skied about 10-12 open water sets (which I do throughout the season). Despite all my notes, it always seems to take me this long to execute correctly. JTH and I had a short dialogue about counter rotation, in which he commented that he is rotating less. I have been too. But . . . this morning I just kept my chest open (facing downcourse) throughout the turn all the way until the ski came back to the handle. Viola!!! That's what I was doing last year at the end of the season that worked so well. It isn't really counter rotating. It is just keeping my shoulders up and facing forward. This is far more efficient and makes me far more "quiet" on the ski than countering and then re-setting my shoulders when the handle comes back. More importantly, it improves the performance of the ski throughout the turn, and it hooks up with massive angle and a very light load, which is just the way I like it! Why is it that reading my ski notes never quite gets me there? I always have to figure it out again.

JD is right. I rode a Fisher Orange from the time it was available until last fall. In early September I got the Razor. The Razor definitely has a bigger flat spot on the ski, making it less "twitchy" than the Fish. The Razor feels meaningfully faster and better at both carrying out and finishing smooth and fast. If I stay square over the bindings, the Razor is incredible. I ran 38 on both skis last year. However, when I made the pass on the Razor it felt wide, early and easy. On the Fish, they felt like everything was happening really fast. The Razor gets me out to the bouy line early and just keeps running around the ball. Similar in some respects, but I would argue that it feels like a totally different ride.

John, that ability of the ski to arc out and then back in is one of the best things about it. If you adjust your mindset you can do that through 35 and 38 (you just have to convince yourself to follow the ski and not get too worked up!). It feels to me like once I set the arc coming off the second wake, I really don't have to do much except stay on top of the bindings and follow the ski around the arc. It finishes the turn on its own when you have the timing right. BTW, we all scare the boat crew sometimes!

I would definitely ask her if it was like that here!! Unfortunately, it is raining, 55 degrees, and the wind is blowing at about 15 out of the south! Ah well. Just have to sit inside and watch it rain. Sure am glad I skied yesterday!!!

Glad to see guys riding and tweaking on the Razor. I skied my first set of the season last night and ran ten 32s back to back just to work on timing, intensity reduction, and handle control. I had the ski from early sept last year and started running 38s much easier than ever before on "stock shortline settings. On those I can run smooth and soft or, when needed, can be agressive enough to go from late to early in one ball. Different settings might require less user input. It made the ski better when I put the bindings at 29.3 vs 29.5. I am inclined to leave it alone, but might try the "JD settings" at some point. Either way, I love what the ski can do!

as much as possible leave it alone aside from skiing. Tendonitis responds best to rest, ice, and ibuprofen. With the pain in your forearm it is also possible you could have a partial tear at the insertion. I completely tore mine and had it repaired. A friend of mine had a partial tear and the doctor told him NO activity with it for 4 months. That did it, but was difficult for him as it was in the midst of ski season. My brother has been dealing with one of these for 2 years now. Without rest, it is hard to get rid of the pain.

Agree with MS on the start point. With respect to width before the gate, I am less concerned with how you get it than that you get it and maintain it prior to turn in. Behind the boat as skiers we are like kids on a swing set. The height we start with is the height we get on the other side. If you start high on the boat, it will take very little energy on your part to get high on the other side, making you wide and early. If you drift in or start with less width, then you will have to use more energy and maintain your pull longer (or in the case of the swing set, pump the swing harder). This creates a second problem -- slack. Remember how when you were on a swing set if you swung really hard you got the "slack hit" at the top? Same thing in skiing. Start wide, use less energy, generate the right amount of speed, and stay in a wide rythm throughout the course.

I do think it is before. I noted that sometimes when I first got the ski I'd get out there early and then sort of quit moving and just stand on the ski and wait for the ball. Then I'd slam into the turn and take off again. I found the key for me was to focus on continuous movement of the ski through the arc prior to the ball. If I do that the ski literally finishes the turn on it's own with the appropriate amount of angle. The concept of continous movement has been an important one in my improvement the last couple of years, and it really seems to make a difference on the Razor because it makes it possible to ski without effort.

I agree with MS . . . oops, there I did it again! (hope that doesn't get me banned). I like to turn in at boat speed. The more speed I turn in with, the less speed I have to generate in the lean. But I do pull out about the same time as MS and try to be progressive both out and back in.

JD, you should talk to Volker or Matteo to see what they might suggest. For my ski style I found the "stock shortline" settings that Razor recommended to be awesome on both sides of the wake, but I know this varies with ski style. My Razor skis very symmetric side to side and still allows me to "rip" the onside when I need it. Once you dial in your settings a bit more you might want to just ski some 28s and 32s focused solely on rythm. One of the problems I noticed my brother had last year when he forgot his ski and rode my Razor was that he was out to the bouy line so much earlier that he lost his movement and rythm. Instead of continuous movement, he would get wide, then sort of freeze and wait for the ball, then turn. Once you establish a more continuous rythm, that will help as well.

Gates are everything for establishing your width, speed and rythm. Two springs ago 4 of us went to ski with Jodi Fisher in Orlando (I had skied with him before). I told him that my goal was to get consistent at 38 off. For two days the only thing we worked on was the gate, and the only thing he coached was the gate. This was a frustration to at least one of the guys in my party, who expected to get advice on more things. Jodi's response was simple: "my goal is to fix one thing that can impact or fix a bunch of other things". The start is just such a fix.

35 degrees, 20mph wind from the NW. WTF!!! Minnesota weather sucks!

It is staying too cold. And when it isn't cold (today) it is blowing like a freakin hurricane! Last year I had my course in for 2 weeks already. This year I haven't found a day when I can bring it up. Done about 8 sets of open water skiing so far just to get on the water and build some technique and endurance, but I'm ready for warm, calm and sunny!

If it were this simple. My problem is that it is the synthesis over the years of countless ski tips to suit my particular ski style, along with watching and learning from what better skiers do, that has made the biggest difference over time. So perhaps the best tip I've ever gotten is, "watch, listen, learn, and then integrate it all into your own personal ski style" . . . and never quit trying things and learning things!

Having been on my Razor since last fall, I love hearing everyone's thoughts. I felt the ski was faster and more stable than the Fisher I was on -- almost slippery fast. Two observations about "on" and "off" sides. Offside is magic, but you need to keep your feet (and the ski) moving around the arc. If you do this, you will find that it is accelerating before you even get back to the buoy line. 6balls, keep the tip engaged in your pre-turn and keep your mass still there and let the ski swing around you and come back under the line. On side turns are highly "user adjustable". To make them smooth and fast, make sure you are swinging the ski out onto the inside edge when you edge change. You have to get from one edge to the other, or you will ride flat, then do a very sharp onside turn. Now, when you are in trouble, it is nice that you can basically slingshot the turn and find yourself in perfect ski position headed to the next ball early after coming into the onside late! But save that for only when you need it!

That was 2007. I was in the boat when my younger brother ran 4 at 38 in the first round. His best tournament score at the time and, save a small mistake, he should have run it. Pressure was on! I skied later that round and ran my first ever 38 in a tournament. Scored two at 39 behind a Nautique captained by Barry Madden. Weather has absolutley sucked! Surprised they are running a tournament there this weekend -- I went past there about a week ago and the water still looked really high.

Hey! Everybody commented I msut be a strong skier ... figured a picture is worth a thousand words! Its a 4 year old picture, but maybe you like this one better (at least I'm skiing in this one!) As for your stool, I don't want to know what's in there little brother.

jimbrake -- when I say get off of it, that is the point where I "let the boat start winning". In other words, where the edge change initiates. My change from edge to edge is pretty fast, but I am keeping the handle until the boat starts to take that away from me, at which point I can reach on a tight and light line and achieve maximum width as the ski swings out away from the handle. OB and Chef23 -- I am probably at the extreme end of what would be considered a "strong skier". I have attached a picture of me at the starting dock in Waterloo as "exhibit A". At 6 feet tall and 195, I spend summer on the water and winter in the gym, and I can deliver the goods against the boat (too much so). That is why you repeatedly hear me say that I want to ski lighter and lighter. When I turn in for the gates I literally quit leaning the minute I feel handle pressure. I used to pull much harder, and it proved counterproductive. For me to get shorter on the line, the key has been to be lighter and lighter and lighter. Coming out of the ball I have become more patient, waiting for the ski to develop all the angle I want before hooking up. Again, my goal is handle pressure only, and nothing more, while maintaining that angle. This seems to result in much more speed with much less load. In essense I am just trying to hold what the ski gives me and not try to take anything more. I do think that as OB points out there are different styles for different skiers. That's why I like having these threads because I learn a lot from what others are doing out there. I experiment a lot with style, and it has definitely improved my skiing. I haven't been in the course yet this year and only have about 8 open water sets in MN. Hoping to get in the course this coming weekend for the first time. After I get a few passes in, I'll try to take some video and post it. Thanks to everyone for the comments. All good stuff!

Bruce -- one other thing about coming out of the ball. First, because I establish the arc early, I am better at letting the ski completely finish before hooking up. Second, I try to put less load on the line at all times than I used to. Instead of load and unload, it is more like soft lean, medium lean, soft lean, edge change.

Hmmm. First, for Bruce, I come off the ball with more speed than I used to. I don't know if this makes sense wording wise, but in order to create the right finish to the turn, I feel like I need to create the right start to the turn, which to me starts right off the second wake. By establishing the arc of the ski off the second wake and going out on the inside edge, I find the ski creates a natural finish rather than me having to "force the finish". Second, yes, I have run 38 this way and while I have been making 38 for years on an inconsistent basis, my consistency at that pass has increased dramatically using this technique. I do agree with you that it is a big increase in control. As I noted in the first post, I am trading "consistent speed" for what used to be an effort to generate maximum speed. Rather than speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down -- I feel like the speed is constant with only slight variations as I hook up, accelerate to the center, then release and glide fast up to the ball. ShaneH -- conventional wisdom would suggest that the early edge change (not releasing the handle, as noted by 6balls) would limit width. I always believed this to be true. In the last year in practice I have found this to be false. Width is a combination of moving out and moving up on the boat. I release the edge when I feel the handle starting to load, which occurs right after the centerline of the pull as the handle is now moving forward and out while the ski and skier are moving straight out (in theory). This reduces the load on the ski and allows it to ride higher and faster as it goes out and up. In practice, what I have found is that this to be false. I am, in fact, both wider and earlier than I was when I pulled longer. MS -- yep, if I think about keeping both my vision and my ski moving at all times (never get "locked in" to a position), the whole thing is awesome. Even in the lean I try to ease into it, and ease out of it rather than feeling like I am just holding the lean. Davemac -- I used to do what Regina did and just pull on the line longer to get around a ball after a mistake and try to get one more that way. Essentially the old "beat the boat" technique. It will get you one more, or maybe a half. Oddly, at least through 38 off, I have found that with this technique if I make a mistake let's say at 3 and am late across the wakes to 4, I will be EARLIER to 4 if after the second wake I actually over-emphasize my edge change and still swing the ski out early. IT is a really weird mindset, but like 6balls said, I just keep telling myself to "get off it, get off it" when I am late across the wakes and then similar to what I said before, I am actually both wider and earlier to the ball than I was in the old days when I would essentially pull all the way to the ball. Instead of being super fast and out of control at the ball, I am in my normal position, but probably just a little further downcourse than usual. I am better controlling my speed. As for Regina's epic wipeout, I can't say whether or not this technique will work at lines shorter than 39. I have run 39 (once) using this technique and when I did it right it felt oddly easy (ZO, private lake, surveyed permanent course). I know it works well through 38 for sure.

Had a short back and forth with Horton under a different thread. Figured I'd start this one to share my experience on the Razor last season and hear some others thoughts. I used to work hard for width, keeping on the edge longer and "staying away from the boat" after the second wake. It made sense to me at the time. Now I think it is dead wrong. Last year I started edge changing quicker off the second wake and found that I was getting wider, earlier, with less effort. Why??? I think it goes like this. You can only get so wide. What happens off the second wake isn't getting wide, it is following the arc of the handle. I can't get wider staying on my edge longer, because the rope is only so long, and I can only get so wide. What I discovered is that if I am carrying speed at the second wake, then I need to change edges sooner and follow the path of the handle in its natural arc (keeping the line tight but light) up alongside the boat. Assuming that I have developed the correct speed, this will put me at maximum width (all I need to do is stay faster than the boat) before I get to the next ball. The ski then carves a natural arc back the other direction, gets on edge, I hook up and do it again. Both on my Fisher (through August) and my Razor (September through ice in) I found this strategy to work exceptionally well. I am going outbound on the inside edge in almost the same path as the handle (just slightly wider arc, as that is how you get to the reach point). It is light, easy, and it feels like the ski maintains near constant speed into and out of the turns. So . . . I don't know a better way to describe it than that. Generate speed to the second wake, change edges and keep a tight and light line, ride up (and out) to full width, let the ski come around and do it again. I realize there are lots of theories here and perhaps each fits a particular type of skier. I ran better and more consistent last year with less effort than I ever have in my life. As those who ski with me can attest, I often ran 20 passes of 32s and 35s in a set and never felt tired. I quit because I felt sorry for the driver! I'd love to hear what people think.

Thinking about it in terms of understanding the feel better. By experimenting with overemphasizing my edge change I see the differences better, then can dial back. I find that easier to figure out and feel than making really small adjustments repeatedly. I prefer to find the limit, then dial it in. Skiing with CP a few years back he said some days he would practice leaving the wake on one edge and landing on the other.

I have seen others do this going into their "onside" turns. You may be riding flat after the second wake. Make sure you swing your ski fully at the edge change. Experiment with over emphasizing the edge change and I think you will fix your issue.

It isn't a big counter but I find that it has to be consistent. Then toeside turns rock. As for heel side, I just relax and let the ski work. I want smooth and fast. I only pull out the ricochet turn when I've gotten myself in trouble. Nice to know it is there when I need it, but I don't want to use it uess I need it.

I am skiing an A68. 6ft tall, 195 lbs, using the "short line stock" settings. I will run my 38 pretty regularly and get a couple at 39 in practice once I'm out of the drysuit (MN). I practice a lot at 35 off. 34mph skier, 47 years old.