Dacon62

@GAJ0004 and @EdObermeier commented in another thread (Aluminum slalom boat maybe soon) about a lighter smaller aluminum V6 for improved power to weight ratio. I have also pondered the same thing almost since the day I owned my first tournament boat (1987 Centurion tru trac II). Why has one of the larger outboard makers not approached a ski boat manufacturer with a direct drive version? These high tech aluminum block engines are lighter, more compact and have a higher wide open throttle or max. rpm range. Possibly being able to push speeds into the 50 mph range. Important if you also like to barefoot. Yamaha makes a high tech 350 HP 5.3 liter DOHC 60 degree V8 (W.O.T. 6,000 rpm) that would likely be a little more compact than a regular low tech by comparison cast iron block push rod 90 degree V8 (W.O.T. 5,200 rpm). If you don't need as much power or you have a lighter aluminum hull Mercury makes a supercharged inline 6 with 300 HP (W.O.T. 6,400 rpm). Although I would suspect that the torque would not be there as it doesn't have the displacement at 2.6 liters. Bet that would skinny up the motor box. http://www.yamahaoutboards.com/outboards/V8-5_3L/specifications http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/outboards/verado/pro-fourstroke/?model=1

@6balls - I recall that it showed in the vid that if you stop the boat with ballast full you just open the gate and as you are coming on plane the water dumps in 2.5 seconds so your planing time would not take much longer. But your right, ideally you dump the weight before coming to a stop. I know most people on this site are hard core skiers and don't care about wake boarding...guess the point I was making was that all these cool options that we 'need' really drive up the price. @Texas6 - I think he mentioned saving 15-20% on fuel although I suspect this is just a guess.

A lot of people out there just gotta have the latest and greatest even though their skill level does not require it, as mentioned. I think these boats are appreciated for their amazing engineering and attention to detail. So here's a question...will people dump their old boats which may even be last years model, and pay even more, when one of the manufacturers picks up this innovation?

The mid engine aluminum boat in the YouTube vid above is a great example of what can be accomplished with the judicious application of time, skill, vision and cash. Props to the gentlemen who brought this project to life. If you watch the posters other videos, that film the wake, it appears that this boat built to be a wake board boat, would likely make a better slalom boat...Hmmmm. Some manufacturers produce pretty decent looking (although jet boats not direct drives) aluminum rides. http://www.edgemarine.com/VelocityLS.htm Just shows that it's possible to make a good looking aluminum boat.

Looks like some Aussie's have already done one. Some interesting stuff...prop tunnel, backwards chines? Followed some of the posters other YouTube vid's to get a good idea of the wake and found a few but mostly at slower (Wakeboard) speeds.

@MattP Got the second part covered. Emailed them the link yesterday. Thanks @jedgell for offering to get us the downlow at the boat show.

Anyone live near Portland that can head to the boat show starting today to report back? I think everyone would agree that an all carbon fiber boat would be the ultimate. But the cost, ouch! Anyone venture a guess? Probably way out of reach were Aluminum would likely be similar in cost to current fiberglass offerings. It sounds like Pavati has CAD and CNC available so they should be able to replicate each boat with minimal variation. They are definetly not afraid to try something new. Gotta give them credit and respect for that.

Don't know for sure if the material comp of a boat would alter the wake hardness my guess would be no. While weight does help a boat from being pulled around by a skier more weight than absolutely necessary will negatively affect the wakes. It's a balancing act. Generally everyone is tying to reduce the weight of a DD while still maintaining as many creature comforts as possible. Having a boat thats too light is easy to fix, just add ballast.

They claim it is lighter but I have not seen any specs to date. I wounder how much lighter a 20' DD would be in Aluminum? If the wake boat is 500-1,000 pounds lighter (don't know just guessing) they claim 4000 pounds of ballast is available. That will more than make up for the lighter hull. Then when you don't need the ballast power out of the hole, reduced fuel consumption etc. could be realized. @rodltg2 - I agree that hull consistency may be a challenge but even boats coming out of molds vary as commented on in numerous threads on this site.

These guys at Pavati Marine in Oregon have made the first all aluminum wake board boat. While this is obviously not a slalom boat if this wake boat succeeds maybe they will consider a DD? It looks like the attention to detail and workmanship is there. http://www.pavati.com/wakeboarding_boat/ Was also intrigued by the dimpled bottom on a model of their drift boat. Could this be used on a slalom boat bottom to reduce drag or introduce air as some other threads have mentioned to soften the wake ? R & D would likely be quicker with an aluminum boat as well as its easier to add/take away experimental items to or under the hull.

Lets get nuts here for a second...Stuff 2 vertically positioned inline 4's into the gunnels. One starboard, one port then come off each shaft with a 90 (have to run through the stringers, don't know if that would work) so that both shafts run into a low profile transmission in the area that it is typically located now. Ideally the transmission could be made to fit under the floor completely and the motors would be tucked away while still acheiving basically the same balance and center of gravity.

Don't think a flat 6 would fit between the stringers and it may not be as tall but it will likely take up more width while probably being at least 1.5 feet above the floor so don't know if you really gain anything. The area between the motor box and gunnel would be more cramped. Also, either your intake or exhaust would be in the bilge area...not ideal.

I envision a lot of beer being spilled by the spectators.

@Rico There was an article in Waterski Mag years ago about an underwater track system with an above the water manned pod. Very cool. But yes, no rumbling V8. @BraceMaker Also remember an interesting thread a while ago were someone had drilled a hole through the hull above the prop, attached a hose to the through hull fitting and introduced air that way to soften the wake. @skibrain You bet, why just have the foil produce lift? Why not downforce as well? Just need the hydraulic force on the winglets or a position sensitive linkage to change the angle of the leading and trailing edges and you have wing producing lift or downforce...

I will give more context. My original goal is to have the space and convenience of a 20' V drive with the ski wakes of a DD. Have your cake and eat it too kind of situation. It would be very tough to start with a light 20' V drive.

@ShaneH Was it lift that rendered the boat undriveable or was the cavitation wash from the prop shooting directly over an inline mounted rudder foil possibly adding to the cavitation problem leading to vague steering input? If that was the case then mounting two outboard located rudder/foils would put the foils in cleaner undisturbed water. I agree with @skibrain that running a boat with a configuration like this through a slalom course would be problematic. Let's set that small detail aside for now. Would the larger dual rudder set up help improve on the tracking and response that is lost due to the lift gained? If so that might check off all 3 items mentioned by @skibrain. The drawing below is just to illustrate the concept. Many other things would need to be considered to make it function properly.

Love the mag. Photos are awesome. Articles are short...that suites me fine as there are many other sources of info available. Bought a Xmas gift subscription for my 2 ski buddies the last 2 years and they reallly enjoy receiving them. As far as the Boat Buyers Guide goes it needs to lay it out there and be honest. Good, bad whatever. This I love everything and don't want to say anything negetive approach doesn't help anyone. Youtube, 'Top Gear' or 'Jeremy Clarkson' sometime. This show/guy tells it how it is and has a huge following because of it.

Can a DD boats wake be improved substansially? Can a V drive throw a tournament level wake? What if you installed 2 (one front, one rear) or 3 (one front, two rear) small, limited lift hydrofoils on a DD or V drive to reduce it's displacement to 2/3 of it's normal weight at slalom speeds. Using a V drive as an example let's say the front foil, maybe attached to the bottom of the front tracking fin, would provide 400 pounds of lift with the transom mounted back foil(s) providing a total of 800 pounds of lift. Maybe the lift would need to be 50/50 (425 lbs front and 425 lbs rear) for a DD or maybe for both. Don't know what the ideal set up would be just figured the V drive is rear heavy and more lift may be needed at the rear than front. That would give approx. 1200 pounds of lift to a 3600 pound 20' V drive and approx. 950 pounds of lift to a 2850 pound DD. I would think that the wake would be much improved in both cases. Could this actually make a V drive a decent slalom boat? Your thoughts......

In its present form the 20i needs to shed some serious weight even if they get the hull right. If I recall Charlie Pigeon revamped the deck on the Centurion Falcon and called it a Tige 2000 slm comp and started Tige that way. Heard that the hull had an awesome wake. Maybe they will introduce an updated version of that? I am a Malibu owner and this may sound biased but next time you see a Tige take a look at the waviness of the strakes/chines etc. There is some mold and quality control work to be done as well. Competition is good. We all win this way.

Have a '08 Malibu VTX with diamond hull. Pretty tough to beat for an all around boat. Lots of space for people and their stuff, handles like an inboard and is really quiet. As you would expect it does everything well but not excellent. The 34 mph slalom wake at 15 off has a rooster tail kick which is even worse at 22 off. The wakes also have a bit wider table due to the wider beam. As we really don't ski the course (gasp?!?!) that often we will usually ski at 28 off or at 11 off. That is not a typo...I take last years 28-32 off loop and add the 4 feet to 15 off and wella...11 off. That gets you to just behind the rooster tail and at that length it skiis as good as my buddies '96 Nautique. Even he will admit that. When something better comes along I will be in line to buy it. That day hasn't come yet...but I'm watching.

Chad Scott, Do the comments apply to the Illusion X or are you referring to a different tower type(Titan)?

I know all you hard core skiers out there think it's an abomination to put a tower on a mid engine ski boat but I have to ask if anyone can tell me at what rope length the Malibus illusion X tower, on a Response LXI, starts to interfere with the rope path while skiing a slalom course?

After reading alot of info online and talking to different knowledgable people it's time to act. Ordered the Strada with Strada boots.http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-money-mouth.gif Thanks to all for your input. Will continue to follow this form. It is awesome. I will surely recommend it. http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif

Great links and info on these products, thanks. May decide to get the Strada after all with the Strada boots. A guy I ski with just purchased a 67" HO S1 (probably going to put double animals on it). That way we can try each others skis. Maybe we end up swaping skis, who knows. Horton, how come I don't see any ski tests you've done on the Strada or HO S1?

Thank you to all for your guidance and comments. Please keep them coming. Now....boots? Sounds like the Strada boots(if ordering a Radar ski) would be the way to go based on the comments I've read in this form. Have not read any horror stories of people breaking bones or ripping ligaments although I've seen some dealer sites warning that they are a high performance, low release binding. Again, what I've read, is it's important not to overtighten the shock cords. Does the Strada boot need to be (heat) fitted by the dealer. Have a size 9.5/10 foot and left foot forward.